Social and mental traits on shapeshifting races templates

[Biscuri]

Hi guys. I'm creating racial templates for "were-creatures", like werewolfs and werecats. In my setting, their alternate forms are very powerful, unlike the were-creatures example on the book, so they cost a lot (50-60 CP each, the entire racial template going to 100+).

I'm using mental and social disadvantages on some races, such as Duty for werewolfs and Loner for werecats, as the entire races share these traits, with few exceptions (eg., a werewolf that refuses his Duty would have social stigma or even enemies).

I haven't seen social or mental disadvantages being used on racial templates at all, but there's no mention that they shouldn't be used, that's a bit confusing.

Since these are social and mental disadvantages, should I carry them over to all their respective Alternate Forms to calculate the cost? Or treat them as personal traits, even if it's racial?

[namada]

An Alternate Form is just a Trait on the Racial Template, just like any other. No need to "carry over."

[Biscuri]

Sorry, I think I wasn't clear.

The book says to get the difference between all racial traits except from Alternate Form, then calculate Alternate Form from that value: (difference * 0.9) + 15. I understand that. What I'm asking is: should I copy the social/mental traits into the Alternate Form traits?

A basic example:

Human form:
Extended Lifespan 6 [12]
Speak With Animals (felines) [10]
Callous [-5]

Alternate Form (werecat): (53 - 19 = 30,6 + 15 ~= 46 CP)
MT +1
ST +1 [10]
DX +2 [40]
Talons [8]
Semi-Upright [-5]

For a total of 19 + 46 = 65 CP

Considered they should be able to speak with felines in their Alternate Form and retain their lifespan, it makes sense that I "carry over" that ability here so it's not lost when changing forms (as the traits replace the human ones), then it would look like this:

Alternate Form (werecat): (75 - 19 = 56 *0,9 + 15 ~= 66 CP)
MT +1
ST +1 [10]
DX +2 [40]
Talons [8]
Extended Lifespan 6 [12]
Speak With Animals (felines) [10]
Semi-Upright [-5]

Making a total of 19 + 66 = 85 CP

What I'm asking is if that thought is correct and if social traits, like Callous in this case, should be treated the same way.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Biscuri

What I'm asking is if that thought is correct and if social traits, like Callous in this case, should be treated the same way.

Yes to both.
If its part of the racial template it goes on the form, though if its on the base form it helps reduce the difference.
Also those were cats have normal manipulators? If they dont that disadvantage lowers the cost, and lowers cost of DX and ST

[aesir23]

The way I do Alternate Forms is to ignore the talk of racial templates entirely and just compare the two Character Sheets (ignoring the Alternate From advantage itself.) E.g.:

Normal Form:
Extended Lifespan 6 [12]
Speak With Animals (felines) [10]
Callous [-5]
=17 points

Wereform
Extended Lifespan 6 [12]
Speak With Animals (felines) [10]
Callous [-5]
MT +1
ST +1 [10]
DX +2 [40]
Talons [8]
Semi-Upright [-5]
=70.

70 - 17= 53. Therefore, Alternate Form costs (15+(53X0.9))= 63 points.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Biscuri

Since these are social and mental disadvantages, should I carry them over to all their respective Alternate Forms to calculate the cost? Or treat them as personal traits, even if it's racial?

If they have them in both forms, then yes. Otherwise no. I'd expect a genuinely racial social trait to still apply regardless of what form you are in, but some social traits can apply only to one form (Social Stigma (Monster) for example - you are still a Monster in your human form, but it isn't [obvious]).

Mental disadvantages often do depend on your form. The classic were* curse is loaded with them, the ones that make you act like a monster or wild animal while transformed.

[Proteus]

Originally Posted by Biscuri

Considered they should be able to speak with felines in their Alternate Form and retain their lifespan, it makes sense that I "carry over" that ability here so it's not lost when changing forms (as the traits replace the human ones)....

My understanding is that any additions to the standard, zero-point, human racial template do carry over, since Alternate Form merely replaces that template with another, while maintaining any additional advantages or disadvantages that you've bought.

So if you're strong for a human, you'll still be strong for a werewolf; if you're Greedy as a human, you'll still be greedy as a wererat; if you're blind as a human, you'll still be blind as a weretiger.