Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-30-2023, 08:37 AM   #1
muduri
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Harlem, New York
Default targeting on many-eyed creatures

A small question: for a Dungeon Fantasy-ish game, one of the players suggested that the eyes of many-eyed creatures like spiders and dragonflies could be easier to target. The idea's intuitively appealing - something like say -5 but only triple damage? If there's a broken aspect to this I've missed, would be great to hear about it - or on the other end would definitely take a page reference if one of the fantasy or SF books already prescribes some numbers. Thanks!
muduri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2023, 08:50 AM   #2
malloyd
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default Re: targeting on many-eyed creatures

Quote:
Originally Posted by muduri View Post
A small question: for a Dungeon Fantasy-ish game, one of the players suggested that the eyes of many-eyed creatures like spiders and dragonflies could be easier to target. The idea's intuitively appealing - something like say -5 but only triple damage? If there's a broken aspect to this I've missed, would be great to hear about it - or on the other end would definitely take a page reference if one of the fantasy or SF books already prescribes some numbers. Thanks!
I'd say you have to target a specific eye, so it's still the same size penalty to hit on purpose. Yeah the creature has a lot of them, but they aren't in the same place. You can't generally say I'm targeting any of the limbs and get a better bonus that you would to hit a specific arm or leg.

I suppose the exception would be if you were rolling the hit location randomly, but I don't think you should apply the hit location penalty at all if you are doing that - though I admit I've always thought the GURPS rules for that were unclear.

As for the effect, well, eye hits don't actually get a damage multiplier. What they do get is being treated as skull, which does. That makes sense because eyes are usually mounted in the skull. If the creature's eyes are attached to its braincase, I see no reason you shouldn't still get the normal effect. If they are not, then you shouldn't get any damage multiplier at all, not a reduced one. At least that's the GURPS rule. If the DF rule was streamlined from it, well, that's what justified the rule in the first place, and it still doesn't apply logically, so if you are house ruling it, you probably should house rule it out of existence rather than to a lesser multiple.

Most creatures with multiple eyes probably shouldn't qualify for the DR2 skull in the first place (I can't think of any creatures that both have skulls and have more than two eyes, and it seems unlikely anatomically unless they've independently evolved a new kind of eye somewhere else), so "ignoring" skull DR they don't have anyway isn't an issue either.
__________________
--
MA Lloyd
malloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2023, 09:08 AM   #3
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: targeting on many-eyed creatures

when you say "many eyes like a dragon fly", I assume you mean compound eyes, not just a lot of eyes. Dragon flies have two massive compound eyes that take up over half their face. I'd certainly treat that as something bigger than -10 to hit. -5 is the hit penalty for the entire face though, so -6 or -7 might be more appropriate.



Most arthropods do have "skulls" in terms of carapaces... but the eyes of the creature are actually under it. Its up to you if the eye has a brain behind it... and if the giant eye has 0 HP on such a creature.
__________________
Be helpful, not pedantic

Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog

Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!
ericthered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2023, 01:06 PM   #4
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: targeting on many-eyed creatures

Quote:
Originally Posted by muduri View Post
A small question: for a Dungeon Fantasy-ish game, one of the players suggested that the eyes of many-eyed creatures like spiders and dragonflies could be easier to target. The idea's intuitively appealing - something like say -5 but only triple damage? If there's a broken aspect to this I've missed, would be great to hear about it - or on the other end would definitely take a page reference if one of the fantasy or SF books already prescribes some numbers. Thanks!
-5 is the entire face. Look at this face:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_9F9_RUESS2E/St...he-world-5.jpg

Those eyes don't cover nearly that much of it's face. Also stabbing it in the secondary eye wouldn't hit the brain, which is where the damage multiplier comes from.
David Johnston2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2023, 01:34 PM   #5
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: targeting on many-eyed creatures

Creepers Peepers: Some creatures have markedly more of their face covered by eyes than a human does. For such, the Eye hit location can potentially be targeted more easily - this ranges from -9 (relative to SM) in cases where the effect is below GURPS resolution to -5 in cases where the creature's face is essentially all eyes. In most cases, this doesn't make it any easier to hit the brain itself - the character must still attack at -9 to hit to bypass Skull DR, otherwise treat any hit to the Eye as a Skull hit, with the added effect of potentially blinding the target in that eye. Optionally, creatures with this trait get a bonus to Vision checks equal to half the bonus to target their Eyes (round up) - +0 at -9 to hit, +1 at -8 or -7 to hit, and +2 at -6 and -5 to hit.

For a player character (or Ally/Enemy), the above is probably worth [-1] per +1 to target the Eyes, or is simply a Feature akin to Born Biter if it gives "free" Acute Vision. This assumes the character still has only two eyes; having multiple eyes may be worth a further [1] per additional pair, as it makes the character harder to blind.
__________________
GURPS Overhaul
Varyon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2023, 01:44 PM   #6
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: targeting on many-eyed creatures

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
when you say "many eyes like a dragon fly", I assume you mean compound eyes, not just a lot of eyes. Dragon flies have two massive compound eyes that take up over half their face. I'd certainly treat that as something bigger than -10 to hit. -5 is the hit penalty for the entire face though, so -6 or -7 might be more appropriate.
Yeah this is how I would handle it.
As MALoyd said you have to aim for a specific eye so I would asses multiple eyes the same as two eyes. However larger eyes would get a lesser penalty to hit - including single eyed creatures like cyclopes.
__________________
My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more!
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
Refplace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2023, 01:45 PM   #7
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: targeting on many-eyed creatures

I would probably value extra eyes at [1] no matter how many you have, as I have never actually seen blinding caused by attacks against the eyes be important in a game (by the time something has been hit twice in the eyes, it's usually far too injured for the extra effect of blinding to matter).

I do like an offset eyes advantage, which just means attacks to the eyes are treated as the face location for wounding and other special effects, rather than the skull location. Given the cost of No Brain (which does that and a bunch more), it's probably [1] or [2].
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2023, 06:54 PM   #8
mburr0003
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Default Re: targeting on many-eyed creatures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Creepers Peepers: Some creatures have markedly more of their face covered by eyes than a human does. For such, the Eye hit location can potentially be targeted more easily - this ranges from -9 (relative to SM) in cases where the effect is below GURPS resolution to -5 in cases where the creature's face is essentially all eyes. In most cases, this doesn't make it any easier to hit the brain itself - the character must still attack at -9 to hit to bypass Skull DR, otherwise treat any hit to the Eye as a Skull hit, with the added effect of potentially blinding the target in that eye. Optionally, creatures with this trait get a bonus to Vision checks equal to half the bonus to target their Eyes (round up) - +0 at -9 to hit, +1 at -8 or -7 to hit, and +2 at -6 and -5 to hit.

For a player character (or Ally/Enemy), the above is probably worth [-1] per +1 to target the Eyes, or is simply a Feature akin to Born Biter if it gives "free" Acute Vision. This assumes the character still has only two eyes; having multiple eyes may be worth a further [1] per additional pair, as it makes the character harder to blind.
Very nice. I actually had to check and make sure this wasn't already a rule in DFRPG Monsters.

Consider it yoinked for my House Rules.
mburr0003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2023, 03:06 PM   #9
Pursuivant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default Re: targeting on many-eyed creatures

I've got a house rule that allows a leveled Quirk for body parts which are significantly larger than normal. Each +1 to Size compared to overall Size is worth -1, except for body parts which are sufficiently tiny that they have a "to hit" penalty of -6 or greater, in that case each +2 to Size is worth -1.

There might be occasional advantages to having oversized body parts, but mostly they just make better targets for high-value attacks.
Pursuivant is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.