World-Building, Campaigns, and Scenarios - Page 2

swordtart · 04-30-2022, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juris

Florida - sorry can't suspend disbelief that anything crazy could happen there ;)

Florida was pretty much a random choice. The first scenario that kicked off the campaign was Brothers in Arms which is based in Sarasota County. The players never seemed interested in going further afield. A local second hand book shop had a copy of Fodor for Florida and being a tourist state there is plenty of information on-line, especially about travel.

I have learned more about the citrus fruit industry than is healthy :)

43Supporter · 04-30-2022, 09:19 AM

I did (and do) try to provide some level of "realism" to my campaigns. I study how a gang might try to cover its activities by looking at "real world" examples, to include "what slip-ups might they make which blow the operation". One of my favorite historical examples: In WW2, German U-boat graving yards would camouflage U-boats under construction -- however, they would only put camo over the already-constructed bits; so Western photo-recon could look at the pics, see how far the camo extended, and extrapolate from there what size U-boat was being built, and how far along it was. So, the gang might well be concealing its heavy-lift gear somewhere -- but did they remember to cover the tracks left by the vehicles? That sort of thing.

Spencer · 05-02-2022, 06:38 AM

There we go. The campaign should force the players to think. Successful players running an illegal operation need to worry about covering their tracks; successful players trying to collect bounties by busting an illegal operation need to think outside the box to figure it out. That's what makes it fun, IMHO.

43Supporter · 05-02-2022, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spencer

There we go. The campaign should force the players to think.

Remind me to tell you about how I got thrown out of NOVA -- a big part of it was "people not thinking through the second- and subsequent-order effects of their actions".... :P

Spencer · 05-03-2022, 07:48 AM

"Well, folks, you managed to intercept the shipment of gasoline intact. You now have about 10,000 gallons of it. plus the salvage you stripped from the rigs you wrecked."
"Yeah! Let's get this sold!"
"Who are you contacting about this?"
"That racetrack and arena might buy it. The owner is pretty shady."
"Well, the owner informs you that he isn't interested. The police are looking for a stolen shipment of gasoline, the Brotherhood has offered a $50,000 reward for information about that shipment and who stole it, and he's pretty sure that no one around here is going to buy it. It's just too hot."
"So, we stole a big shipment of gasoline, and now we can't sell it?"
"Yup."

43Supporter · 05-03-2022, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spencer

"So, we stole a big shipment of gasoline, and now we can't sell it?"
"Yup."

And this is why the Truly Successful Criminal is the one no one has ever heard of -- like whomever pulled off the 1999 Loomis truck robbery. (Look it up. >:) )

In the example you mention: The Smart Criminal boosts the juice, then divides it up into *much*-smaller units -- say, 55-gallon drums -- and sells it piecemeal in a bunch of different places over a long period of time.

""When you steal six hundred dollars, you can just disappear. When you steal six hundred *million*, they will find you *unless* they think you're already dead."
[Hans Gruber, _Die Hard_]

juris · 05-03-2022, 09:34 PM

Beat me to it. Also, a $50,000 reward for 10,000 gallons of gas at $40 a gallon? The gas is worth 8x the reward money!

Quote:

Originally Posted by 43Supporter

In the example you mention: The Smart Criminal boosts the juice, then divides it up into *much*-smaller units -- say, 55-gallon drums -- and sells it piecemeal in a bunch of different places over a long period of time.

"
[Hans Gruber, _Die Hard_]

Spencer · 05-04-2022, 06:57 AM

The gas, which will be difficult if not impossible to sell, does have a legal value of $40 per gallon. When fencing stolen goods, however, the price is often significantly less than the legal value. In my campaign I would normally allow 50% of legal value as a general fencing price. That gives the load a street value of $200,000, and like 43 said, the load would likely have to be sold off piecemeal. No sane buyer wants to get caught with exactly the amount of stolen goods when such a big heist is pulled.
And $50,000 for information which leads to the recovery of the stolen gas isn't that bad. They don't have to return the goods themselves, just sell the information they have on where the gasoline is and who has it.
In this scenario, that shady arena owner might just ask for $50,000 just to keep his mouth shut, and that still isn't a guarantee that he won't turn around and sell the information to the Brotherhood. A more trustworthy plan would be to have a buyer lined up before the heist who has a fuel depot where the gasoline can be off-loaded, and a chop shop to take apart the trailer afterwards to get rid of evidence.

swordtart · 05-04-2022, 01:17 PM

Steal what you can use and no more.

Shopping around for a fencing always risks someone extra who can shop you for the reward (or immunity from prosecution). Three can keep a secret... if two of them are dead.

If you are going that route, as you say steal to order, at least that way the fence is an accessory before the fact and risks as much as the criminal rather than being an accessory after the fact and risking less.

In a well monitored society just procuring 180 55-gallon drums might trigger alarm bells. If you do it well before hand it might go under the radar, but getting them a few days before hand may alert the police that a fuel heist is planned. Plus you will need somewhere to hold up while you conduct the transfer of fuel.

Of course the real Hans Gruber route would be heist the rig, remove the majority of the fuel in situ and then torch the rest. Lay low for a month or so and then sell it piecemeal to keep you going through the lean-times. There is less likelihood of someone looking for fuel that was believed lost in a fire several months ago.

50% is a salvage price. You might get that from legitimate dealers if you were legit (and for small quantities they may not ask questions). Fences will offer at most 25% and probably as low as 10% of the retail value as they know you are not legit and you are paying a premium for them not to sell you out.

Fuel isn't worth stealing at $4 per gallon, especially with the risk the whole lot could go up in the heist.

ak_aramis · 05-07-2022, 12:43 AM

I've found that the first question in "worldbuilding" one's CW/Autoduel is to figure the overall nature...

Because CW can support several different styles.

Dueltrack's Chassis and Crossbow can support a mad-max style, cities turned jungle, no non-insular communities, everyone scavenging...

Or the points of light style of the Autoduel computer game (and most of my mini-campaigns): Cities, nearly self-sufficient on vat-nutrient, and basic parts, but wilderness between... and brave truckers making up the difference.

Or a more recovered series of counties that almost function like nations, but badlands between.

All the way to certain regions being almost civilized, as implied in GAD and its supplements.

Knowing which flavor you're aiming for helps in all the other elements Swordtart references.

And those also give a lot of weight to the Law Enforcement response nature and frequency. In a mad-max style area, "what law enforcement?"

Points of light? Only as far as the town's direct interests go... rob a few couriers? no biggie. Rob the local farmer on the way to market? Significant chance of the next encounter being HANGRY MEN! Hit the truck stop which recharges the rigs bringing the water treatment chemicals? Every Brother is going to rat you out... if they don't smoke you themselves.

EDSEL land? Pray it's LEOs and not EDSEL that responds... you might even get to surrender...

04-30-2022, 09:19 AM	#12
43Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007	Re: World-Building, Campaigns, and Scenarios I did (and do) try to provide some level of "realism" to my campaigns. I study how a gang might try to cover its activities by looking at "real world" examples, to include "what slip-ups might they make which blow the operation". One of my favorite historical examples: In WW2, German U-boat graving yards would camouflage U-boats under construction -- however, they would only put camo over the already-constructed bits; so Western photo-recon could look at the pics, see how far the camo extended, and extrapolate from there what size U-boat was being built, and how far along it was. So, the gang might well be concealing its heavy-lift gear somewhere -- but did they remember to cover the tracks left by the vehicles? That sort of thing. __________________ "Dale who?" 79er The Jeremy Clarkson Debate Course: 1) I'm Right. 2) You're Wrong. 3) The End.

05-02-2022, 06:38 AM	#13
Spencer Join Date: Apr 2022	Re: World-Building, Campaigns, and Scenarios There we go. The campaign should force the players to think. Successful players running an illegal operation need to worry about covering their tracks; successful players trying to collect bounties by busting an illegal operation need to think outside the box to figure it out. That's what makes it fun, IMHO. __________________ "Bob knew that he was in trouble the instant that he lined up the sidecar rig in his sights and heard a 'click' when he pulled the trigger. Based on the sized of the dust cloud following that sidecar rig, it was big trouble, too."

05-03-2022, 07:48 AM	#15
Spencer Join Date: Apr 2022	Re: World-Building, Campaigns, and Scenarios "Well, folks, you managed to intercept the shipment of gasoline intact. You now have about 10,000 gallons of it. plus the salvage you stripped from the rigs you wrecked." "Yeah! Let's get this sold!" "Who are you contacting about this?" "That racetrack and arena might buy it. The owner is pretty shady." "Well, the owner informs you that he isn't interested. The police are looking for a stolen shipment of gasoline, the Brotherhood has offered a $50,000 reward for information about that shipment and who stole it, and he's pretty sure that no one around here is going to buy it. It's just too hot." "So, we stole a big shipment of gasoline, and now we can't sell it?" "Yup." __________________ "Bob knew that he was in trouble the instant that he lined up the sidecar rig in his sights and heard a 'click' when he pulled the trigger. Based on the sized of the dust cloud following that sidecar rig, it was big trouble, too."

05-04-2022, 06:57 AM	#18
Spencer Join Date: Apr 2022	Re: World-Building, Campaigns, and Scenarios The gas, which will be difficult if not impossible to sell, does have a legal value of $40 per gallon. When fencing stolen goods, however, the price is often significantly less than the legal value. In my campaign I would normally allow 50% of legal value as a general fencing price. That gives the load a street value of $200,000, and like 43 said, the load would likely have to be sold off piecemeal. No sane buyer wants to get caught with exactly the amount of stolen goods when such a big heist is pulled. And $50,000 for information which leads to the recovery of the stolen gas isn't that bad. They don't have to return the goods themselves, just sell the information they have on where the gasoline is and who has it. In this scenario, that shady arena owner might just ask for $50,000 just to keep his mouth shut, and that still isn't a guarantee that he won't turn around and sell the information to the Brotherhood. A more trustworthy plan would be to have a buyer lined up before the heist who has a fuel depot where the gasoline can be off-loaded, and a chop shop to take apart the trailer afterwards to get rid of evidence. __________________ "Bob knew that he was in trouble the instant that he lined up the sidecar rig in his sights and heard a 'click' when he pulled the trigger. Based on the sized of the dust cloud following that sidecar rig, it was big trouble, too."

05-04-2022, 01:17 PM	#19
swordtart Join Date: Jun 2008	Re: World-Building, Campaigns, and Scenarios Steal what you can use and no more. Shopping around for a fencing always risks someone extra who can shop you for the reward (or immunity from prosecution). Three can keep a secret... if two of them are dead. If you are going that route, as you say steal to order, at least that way the fence is an accessory before the fact and risks as much as the criminal rather than being an accessory after the fact and risking less. In a well monitored society just procuring 180 55-gallon drums might trigger alarm bells. If you do it well before hand it might go under the radar, but getting them a few days before hand may alert the police that a fuel heist is planned. Plus you will need somewhere to hold up while you conduct the transfer of fuel. Of course the real Hans Gruber route would be heist the rig, remove the majority of the fuel in situ and then torch the rest. Lay low for a month or so and then sell it piecemeal to keep you going through the lean-times. There is less likelihood of someone looking for fuel that was believed lost in a fire several months ago. 50% is a salvage price. You might get that from legitimate dealers if you were legit (and for small quantities they may not ask questions). Fences will offer at most 25% and probably as low as 10% of the retail value as they know you are not legit and you are paying a premium for them not to sell you out. Fuel isn't worth stealing at $4 per gallon, especially with the risk the whole lot could go up in the heist.

05-07-2022, 12:43 AM	#20
ak_aramis Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alsea, OR	Re: World-Building, Campaigns, and Scenarios I've found that the first question in "worldbuilding" one's CW/Autoduel is to figure the overall nature... Because CW can support several different styles. Dueltrack's Chassis and Crossbow can support a mad-max style, cities turned jungle, no non-insular communities, everyone scavenging... Or the points of light style of the Autoduel computer game (and most of my mini-campaigns): Cities, nearly self-sufficient on vat-nutrient, and basic parts, but wilderness between... and brave truckers making up the difference. Or a more recovered series of counties that almost function like nations, but badlands between. All the way to certain regions being almost civilized, as implied in GAD and its supplements. Knowing which flavor you're aiming for helps in all the other elements Swordtart references. And those also give a lot of weight to the Law Enforcement response nature and frequency. In a mad-max style area, "what law enforcement?" Points of light? Only as far as the town's direct interests go... rob a few couriers? no biggie. Rob the local farmer on the way to market? Significant chance of the next encounter being HANGRY MEN! Hit the truck stop which recharges the rigs bringing the water treatment chemicals? Every Brother is going to rat you out... if they don't smoke you themselves. EDSEL land? Pray it's LEOs and not EDSEL that responds... you might even get to surrender...