Giant spider silk socks, or, light cloth as an "armor" material

[Michael Thayne]

In Low-Tech: Instant Armor, there is an entry for light leather that provides DR 1 vs. cutting only. It occurs to me that, especially in fantasy campaigns with giant spider silk, magic wizard robes that act as armor, etc. it might be useful to similarly define "light cloth" as an "armor" material, so that if you want to purchase giant spider silk socks, you can figure out how much they cost. Reverse-engineering it from the silk shirt on p. 32 of GURPS Loadouts: Low-Tech Armor, it seems such a thing should have a base cost, weight, and don time of $48, 1.6 lbs., and 15 seconds, respectively (this is just dividing the cost by 30 and the weight and don time by 1.5). There would be no penalties for layering it with armor but layering enchanted light cloth with enchanted armor should probably only give you the best bonus of the two items. Thoughts?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

. Thoughts?

I had previously worked out the economics of the "Magic Crimson Pirate Do Rag" or MCPDR and dividing the cost of the Enchantment by 20 (Skull Only) makes them extremely affordable.

Even startign with DR 0 cloth makes the cost for +2 DR is only 10 energy. +3 DR is 30 more. Going to +4 adds another 110 energy. This is the first time you've gone out of a 1 hour Q&D Ritual. The final Enchantment for +5 adds another 250.

If the Q&D cost is still $1 per energy point _everyone_ should have at least a +3 MCPDR. A +3 DR helmet is only more for the cost of the helmet of cource but the MCPDR is much more stylish. :)

[mlangsdorf]

Per DFRPG, Giant Spidersilk Socks would be Light Cloth Feet with the Giant Spidersilk modifier. Weight 2.1 lbs, $1700, DR 2, no layering penalty.

If I was feeling really generous as the GM, I would allow you to have a thin version with DR 1 for half weight and half cost. But it's still a fairly thick pair of socks and you can't stack multiple layers of it.

The Q&D vs S&S cost dichtomy for armor is really bad and lets optimizing munchkins have much higher DR than less math aware newbies. I've disallowed in my games for years, and ruled that the Fortify spell creates a forcefield - you pay full price for the enchantment no matter where it is, but you get full body DR no matter where it is. Munchkins wearing pirate do-rags bitch a little but it solves so many issues.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

I had previously worked out the economics of the "Magic Crimson Pirate Do Rag" or MCPDR and dividing the cost of the Enchantment by 20 (Skull Only) makes them extremely affordable.

Even startign with DR 0 cloth makes the cost for +2 DR is only 10 energy. +3 DR is 30 more. Going to +4 adds another 110 energy. This is the first time you've gone out of a 1 hour Q&D Ritual. The final Enchantment for +5 adds another 250.

If the Q&D cost is still $1 per energy point _everyone_ should have at least a +3 MCPDR. A +3 DR helmet is only more for the cost of the helmet of cource but the MCPDR is much more stylish. :)

The downside of the MCPDR is that it's fairly easy to penetrate, and five penetrations ruin the enchantment.

Repair will reset the counter, but it requires Magery-2, so it's probably somewhat uncommon and expensive (though not as expensive as a new set of enchantments). A helmet with 3DR base extends the time between repair jobs three-fold.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

The Q&D vs S&S cost dichtomy for armor is really bad and lets optimizing munchkins have much higher DR than less math aware newbies.

Honestly, the whole enchantment mechanics from GURPS Magic should probably be deleted and replaced with something that doesn't talk about energy at all, just give it a money cost and give it the same level of detail as there is for any other type of crafting.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

The Q&D vs S&S cost dichtomy for armor is really bad and lets optimizing munchkins have much higher DR than less math aware newbies. I've disallowed in my games for years, and ruled that the Fortify spell creates a forcefield - you pay full price for the enchantment no matter where it is, but you get full body DR no matter where it is. Munchkins wearing pirate do-rags bitch a little but it solves so many issues.

Doing the enchant layer by layer costing much less is also a bit of an issue, but not as much of one as it's probably the standard way enchanters do all such enchantments, and so would be built into the prices charged for enchants in settings where they're for sale.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Rupert

The downside of the MCPDR is that it's fairly easy to penetrate, and five penetrations ruin the enchantment.

Of course, any attack that would penetrate a 3 DR MCPDR would have at a bare minimum dealt 4 HP Injury to the target without the MCPDR (assuming an attack that equals the DR counts as a penetration, as it does in LTC2; if you have to actually exceed DR, you're looking at a minimum of 8 HP Injury, which is a Major Wound and a Knockdown/Stun check at HT-10 for anyone with HP 15 or less) - and for any attack that manages to injure a character who has one, it reduces that injury by 12 HP. At only $40, that would probably be worth the cost even if it stopped working after the first penetration, so lasting for five is a steal.

[Varyon]

Basically, here's the scenario. PC1 has an MCPDR, PC2 does not.

With 1-2 damage, neither character is affected (although PC2 might be susceptible to any blood agents or contact agents on striking object, while PC1 would not).

With 3 damage, PC1 is unharmed but his MCPDR may have been penetrated. PC2 takes 4 HP Injury, has to roll against HT to avoid knockdown/stunning, and is probably at -4 to their next roll due to shock.

With 4 damage, PC1 is still unharmed (may be affected by blood agents and the like, as above), but his MCPDR has certainly suffered a penetration. PC2 takes 8 HP Injury and likely has to roll against HT-10 to avoid knockdown/stunning.

With 5 damage, PC1 is still unharmed but his MCPDR has been penetrated. PC2 takes 12 HP Injury, and even if he avoids knockdown/stunning is probably below 1/3 HP (and may be making consciousness checks each round).

With 6 damage, PC1 suffers 4 HP Injury and his MCPDR is penetrated. PC2 suffers 16 HP Injury.

From this point forward, the MCPDR is reducing Injury by 12 HP on a hit, but suffering a penetration.


Personally, I'd say that with an overall cost of $40, the MCPDR is an excellent deal. If you aren't hit in the head, it doesn't matter and you're out $40. If you are hit in the head, it's going to markedly reduce (if not outright eliminate) the Injury you suffer. Even if you're exclusively getting hit in the head by 3 point attacks, negating 5 of them - enough to cause 20 HP Injury, which will potentially kill an average character (and if using bleeding is even more dangerous, particularly with the harsher rule options for head wounds) - for only $40 is well worth it. Once your MCPDR has taken a few penetrating hits, just replace it.

EDIT: This was originally a response to a post that has since been deleted (I'm assuming they realized the error); I've removed the response portion, but am leaving the breakdown up.

[Michael Thayne]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

Per DFRPG, Giant Spidersilk Socks would be Light Cloth Feet with the Giant Spidersilk modifier. Weight 2.1 lbs, $1700, DR 2, no layering penalty.

If I was feeling really generous as the GM, I would allow you to have a thin version with DR 1 for half weight and half cost. But it's still a fairly thick pair of socks and you can't stack multiple layers of it.

While the DFRPG armor options are more similar to the ones in Low-Tech than they are to the ones in Basic Set, there are differences and I want something Low-Tech compatible.

The Q&D vs S&S cost dichtomy for armor is really bad and lets optimizing munchkins have much higher DR than less math aware newbies. I've disallowed in my games for years, and ruled that the Fortify spell creates a forcefield - you pay full price for the enchantment no matter where it is, but you get full body DR no matter where it is. Munchkins wearing pirate do-rags bitch a little but it solves so many issues.

Oh yeah, Q&D has some bizarre balance issues. DFRPG doesn't have enchanting rules per se but it reprices many items from GURPS Dungeon Fantasy as if the enchanting rules are in play but Q&D enchantment is limited to staffs, wands, and one-use items like ammunition. It also makes it so that the prices for adding an enchantment to different pieces of a suit of armor sum to 100% (in Magic enchanting armor one piece at a time is more expensive than enchanting the entire suit, which I can see the rationale but also like what if the pieces get separated?).

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Varyon

EDIT: This was originally a response to a post that has since been deleted (I'm assuming they realized the error); I've removed the response portion, but am leaving the breakdown up.

Yes, I completely mis-read what you wrote, realised almost as soon as I hit 'send', so I deleted it immediately.