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Old 09-10-2018, 03:22 PM   #31
Nils_Lindeberg
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: One on One simulation

And when it comes to the balance point DX wise to wear armor it all depends. Mostly it depends on the enemy's weapon. At low level you have less points to put into DX so high armor values are more costly, but at the same time if you fight low ST enemies then their damage will be low and armor is more valuable.

So if you are a low attribut char fighting high attribute chars, armor is probably a bad investment, since their weapons average damage will be proportionally higher than you armor.

But if it is the other way around, you are the high level char and you fight minions, then the armor you can have will be high compared to their average damage.

Normally 1 handed weapons stops doing extra damage at ST 13. You only need IQ 10 and DX 12 for Expertise. So at 32p you get either armor or expertise and a small shield. At 36p you can afford expertise and about 3 points of lost DX, so Tower Shield and Cloth. At 40p that turns into Tower Shield and Plate or at least chain to have some extra DX for enemy DX penalties.

The real limit here is 1h weapons stopping at ST 13.

I created a list of weapons all the way up to 20 for 1h, 2h and pole arms. Adjusted some weapons by 1/2 or 1 point to make the scaling of damage more even. And now the sim shows 1h weapons at ST 14 and 15 to be the big winners at 40p level, but most weapons show up in the top 10%. All in all shields are much better in my sim, but I am not so sure I would take it over armor in a melee or dungeon.

Making the 2-h weapons a little stronger made them more competitive now that there is two expertise talents for sword and board and only one for 2h-weapons. And with that change came more builds using heavy armor, because shield wasn't an option for 2-h builds.

So maybe a balancing act would be to improve 2-h expertise. If you have Sword Expertise, and you use a 2-h sword you get some extra bonus that is not available to sword and board builds. Maybe a 1 less armor penalty, 2 less armor penalty or some such to represent that you have learned to trust your armor more and use it actively when fighting without a shield.

In short you get 1 extra bonus if you have weapon expertise and fight without a shield. And 2 extra bonuses (like you get now) if you have Shield expertise and use a shield.
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:25 PM   #32
Nils_Lindeberg
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: One on One simulation

You could also tie Warrior, Veteran and possibly Hardened to armor use, by having armor as prereqs for the talents.

For example: Warrior, no prereq. Veteran Leather prereq. Hardened. Chain prereq.


This would give the armors that also gets a MA penalty a boost. Especially if the ST prereqs were removed. Or maybe ST 14 for Warrior, ST 15 OR Leather for Veteran. ST16 OR Chain for Hardened. Then we could still have bare chested barbarians side by side with low ST tanks that wield armor and shield, since their armor can be boosted by the Veteran/Hardened talents. It would open up many new builds.

Last edited by Nils_Lindeberg; 09-11-2018 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 09-12-2018, 06:02 AM   #33
platimus
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: behind you
Default Re: One on One simulation

Quote:
In TFT plate is plate. But in reality it was a huge difference between a breast plate and helmet, conquistador style, medieval knight plate and late medieval footman's full plate. I think we are comparing different versions of plate at different times and so have a hard time agreeing.
Actually, in Advanced Melee, there were 3 different types of plate: Half-plate(4/-5DX), Plate(5/-6), and Fine Plate(6/-4). This seems sufficient enough to me but I could see myself wanting to adjust the DX penalties a tad: Half-plate(4/-4), Plate(5/-5), and Fine Plate(6/-4).
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Old 09-12-2018, 11:20 AM   #34
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: One on One simulation

Quote:
Originally Posted by platimus View Post
Actually, in Advanced Melee, there were 3 different types of plate: Half-plate(4/-5DX), Plate(5/-6), and Fine Plate(6/-4). This seems sufficient enough to me but I could see myself wanting to adjust the DX penalties a tad: Half-plate(4/-4), Plate(5/-5), and Fine Plate(6/-4).
Last I heard, the new edition already adjusts the penalties down by 1 for all types of plate, which is a step in the right direction as IIRC no fighter PC ever chose to wear any of them in my TFT campaigns. Though, I doubt they would even with the 1 point improvement.
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Old 09-12-2018, 11:24 AM   #35
platimus
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: behind you
Default Re: One on One simulation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Last I heard, the new edition already adjusts the penalties down by 1 for all types of plate,
Awesome! Thanks for the heads-up.
Quote:
which is a step in the right direction as IIRC no fighter PC ever chose to wear any of them in my TFT campaigns. Though, I doubt they would even with the 1 point improvement.
Nor should they...unless they have the DX or new weapon-skills to back it up.
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Old 09-12-2018, 04:12 PM   #36
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: One on One simulation

Well the best one got to 6 attributes higher than is allowed in the new edition of the rules, and at DX 16 chose to wear armor which didn't reduce his DX due to his high ST.
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Old 09-12-2018, 04:22 PM   #37
platimus
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: behind you
Default Re: One on One simulation

Even with Full-plate(5/-5), DX 16, and Master Swordsman, I would probably stick to half-plate unless you were throwing large numbers of foes at me between opportunities for healing.
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Old 09-12-2018, 04:35 PM   #38
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: One on One simulation

I'd probably use leather, cloth, or fine chainmail, or quite possibly no armor (that's what my own DX 16 PC usually wore) and just plan on using cunning and tactics (and comrades) to kill foes before they got to me.
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Old 09-15-2018, 07:13 PM   #39
platimus
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: behind you
Default Re: One on One simulation

That works too! :)
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Old 11-06-2018, 12:56 AM   #40
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default New simulator version

Nils was kind enough to give me the simulator source code. It was written in a old mainframe language called C/AL, so I hand-translated it into Julia, a fantastic new programming language used mostly in data science, machine learning, statistics, and the like. I also added some tweaks and updates, like double strikes for UC V warriors and Reptile Men UC warriors and brawlers. The simulator still doesn't do HTH yet.

One problem I ran into was the simulator overheating my CPU and shutting off my laptop so I put in a one-millisecond delay every so often which did the trick. If you run this on your own laptop and it crashes you'll want to up the frequency of sleeping. To run it you just need to install Julia 1.X, make sure the simulator file is in the current directory, and execute a command like this:

julia -O 3 tfttesting.jl -points 36 > sim-36.csv

This will put comma-separated values into sim-36.csv, which you can open in (or import into) a spreadsheet.

Here's the new code.

And here's the latest output.
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