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Old 05-17-2018, 11:16 AM   #31
Extrarius
 
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Default Re: Large variance of SMs together

For money, I see two easy options that haven't been mentioned:

First, the market could work on a credit system with there being a yearly/seasonal 'settlement week/day/etc' where people pay their credit in multiple ways (decided at time of writing the 'IOU') - commodities (grains, seasonings, etc), other staple foods (preserved meats, jarred fruit preserves), and, occasionally, actually currency. My understanding is that Japan worked something like this for a while, at least for expensive items (perhaps only for items that required commissioning).

Second, there could be a common magic item akin to "The Bag of Holding" that comes in many sizes, such that a fairy would have a tiny bag with the opening just big enough to fit a coin through and a titan might own a bag whose opening could be big enough to easily place people of any other race, carts, horses, etc in the bag. This still leaves the problem that the titan will have difficulty counting out tiny coins. One nice way to solve this would be to mimic an ability from the "Handy Haversack", which effectively helps you grab the contents you want - the titan imagines which coins they want, reaches in, and finds those coins in his hand without having to tediously feel around for the minuscule coins. Another option would be to let the magic bag merge coins into bars and vice versa.
If you don't want magic items everywhere, perhaps the city itself has some kind of system that provides the magic (obelisks evenly distributed around town, perhaps), so the bags only function in the city (and if taken outside the city, the contents stays in the pocket dimension inside the city, and you just have an empty bag with some runes/sigils/etc on it).

Thinking more about feudal Japan, if the coins were slightly on the large side with holes through the center, titans could more easily handle groups of coins strung together, and they're going to need larger sums for most things anyways, so that might help some. If they need to make strings of a certain value, though, it'd be a very tedious process for the titans (almost certainly involving something like a beading needle). I've used very tiny beads that are smaller than 1/10th the size of a modern coin, and it was a pain, but doable (with improvised equipment - had to find a very tiny sewing needle and dull the edge a bit to make a beading needle that'd fit through the beads).
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Old 05-17-2018, 12:36 PM   #32
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Default Re: Large variance of SMs together

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Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
I was worried a bit about ratios. I could work backwards, figuring out how many titans exist, then using their combined weight divided among each race to figure out how many of each live together. That would give a huge amount of faeries compared to the other races, though.
I wouldn't balance biomass. As you said, that gives a huge numeric advantage to the smaller beings. They should have a lesser advantage in terms of numbers.

Actually, I ran some numbers where each increase in SM reduced the numbers by 1/3rd, and each decrease in SM increased numbers by 50%. I ended up with pixies still forming just over 50% of the population and Titans forming over 80% of the mass.

here are the numbers I got. Forgive my names.
Code:
        Size    Mass        Number    Weight
Titans    6    140000        9    1,229,081
Giants    3    5000        30    148,148
Trolls    2    1500        44    66,667
Burlies    1    500        67    33,333
Humans    0    150        100    15,000
Dwarfs    -1    50        150    7,500
Hobbits    -2    15        225    3,375
Little Ones    -3    5        338    1,688
Pixies    -6    0.15        1,139    171
                            2,101    1,504,962
For contrast, doubling or halving gives Titans 60% of the weight and Pixies 80% of the population.
You could also consider a scheme where Some race in the middle is unusually well represented, and the big folks have equal mass than them and the little ones equal numbers.
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Last edited by ericthered; 05-17-2018 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 05-17-2018, 04:59 PM   #33
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Default Re: Large variance of SMs together

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Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
I do like the "cartoon logic" approach. I also am pretty sure there won't be a problem with "drunk giants" because I'm pretty I won't have alcohol exist.
This is set in Hell?
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Old 05-17-2018, 10:27 PM   #34
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Default Re: Large variance of SMs together

Yeast is everywhere and anything with sugar can be fermented into alcohol.
But I don't see lacking it as being game breaking for most players.
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Old 05-17-2018, 11:05 PM   #35
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Default Re: Large variance of SMs together

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Yeast is everywhere and anything with sugar can be fermented into alcohol.
But I don't see lacking it as being game breaking for most players.
I know some players who would absolutely refuse to play if there wasn't alcohol.

Oh, wait. You mean in-setting, don't you?
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Old 05-17-2018, 11:21 PM   #36
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Default Re: Large variance of SMs together

With 12 SMs to play with, you could have the tiniest people living inside the furniture of the largest. A pixie apartment complex carved into a titan's table leg, for example.

Imagine humans regularly interacting with people as tall as a typical historical wargaming mini, or half as tall as a LEGO minifigure.
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Old 05-18-2018, 12:06 AM   #37
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Default Re: Large variance of SMs together

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Even with cartoon light logic, you don't need them to weigh what realistic giants would. They'd need god-level strength to lift each other otherwise.

A human scaled up 10 times would have 1/10th the strength per pound. So to lift each other as easily humans lift each other, they'd have to be 10 times as strong as even semi-realistic titans would be.

That's pretty extreme.
It is. I don't have an issue with it, it would just be one of those things. I'm not sure how I'd want it to be, to be honest. I like titans with other titans to be similar as humans to other humans. I'd also like some weight and strength values that make sense according to something.
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Originally Posted by Extrarius View Post
Second, there could be a common magic item akin to "The Bag of Holding" that comes in many sizes, such that a fairy would have a tiny bag with the opening just big enough to fit a coin through and a titan might own a bag whose opening could be big enough to easily place people of any other race, carts, horses, etc in the bag. This still leaves the problem that the titan will have difficulty counting out tiny coins. One nice way to solve this would be to mimic an ability from the "Handy Haversack", which effectively helps you grab the contents you want - the titan imagines which coins they want, reaches in, and finds those coins in his hand without having to tediously feel around for the minuscule coins. Another option would be to let the magic bag merge coins into bars and vice versa.
If you don't want magic items everywhere, perhaps the city itself has some kind of system that provides the magic (obelisks evenly distributed around town, perhaps), so the bags only function in the city (and if taken outside the city, the contents stays in the pocket dimension inside the city, and you just have an empty bag with some runes/sigils/etc on it).
I've always like Bag's of Holding, I actually used them in one campaign to replace modern credit card usage (you don't even pull out the coins, you just pour and the exact amount comes out into the "register" without either opening). As for large scale magic item usage, I actually like it, but I also like your idea of them being largely powered by the city, further increasing want to move there.
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Actually, I ran some numbers where each increase in SM reduced the numbers by 1/3rd, and each decrease in SM increased numbers by 50%. I ended up with pixies still forming just over 50% of the population and Titans forming over 80% of the mass.
That's so awesome of you, thanks! 50/80 seems like good numbers to run off of. I might change things slightly, based on other setting needs (for instance, if there is an especially common race) but other I'll probably stick to that.
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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
Yeast is everywhere and anything with sugar can be fermented into alcohol.
But I don't see lacking it as being game breaking for most players.
It's true, but what if fermenting wasn't possible? For instance, I know guns never get developed due to a lack of requirements necessary to get there (largely, a relatively safe explosive like gunpowder).
As for players, almost all my players far prefer illegal drugs to legal ones, for a variety of reasons. Plus, there's often too many alcohol plots I personally just don't care for and would rather restrict it in some manner.
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Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
With 12 SMs to play with, you could have the tiniest people living inside the furniture of the largest. A pixie apartment complex carved into a titan's table leg, for example.

Imagine humans regularly interacting with people as tall as a typical historical wargaming mini, or half as tall as a LEGO minifigure.
That's part of why I adore this idea. Imagine the titan commoner bowing to the faerie king, completely unironically.
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While I do not think that GURPS is perfect I do think that it is more balanced than what I am likely to create by GM fiat.
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Old 05-18-2018, 01:24 PM   #38
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Default Re: Large variance of SMs together

You don't need to come up with logical reasons for disallowing alcohol if you don't want to.
Campaigns always have genre/theme/etc. rules completely aside from in setting realities. Like how ignoring sex and pregnancy for games doesn't mean you need a reason to make it somehow not necessary behind the scenes.
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Old 05-18-2018, 05:53 PM   #39
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Default Re: Large variance of SMs together

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
You don't need to come up with logical reasons for disallowing alcohol if you don't want to.
Campaigns always have genre/theme/etc. rules completely aside from in setting realities. Like how ignoring sex and pregnancy for games doesn't mean you need a reason to make it somehow not necessary behind the scenes.
That's true and it's something I've done in other campaigns, I was mostly just thinking of ways it might not have come up.

One thing I just thought of; A 12 SM difference means it requires a Per-2 roll to even notice the smaller race out in the open. Now, I can assume that the titans are careful in general, but would this cause issues largely?
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Old 05-19-2018, 07:38 AM   #40
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Default Re: Large variance of SMs together

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That's so awesome of you, thanks! 50/80 seems like good numbers to run off of. I might change things slightly, based on other setting needs (for instance, if there is an especially common race) but other I'll probably stick to that.
You're welcome, and thanks for the opportunity. This sort of mathematical problem is one of my favorite things about table top gaming!

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Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
One thing I just thought of; A 12 SM difference means it requires a Per-2 roll to even notice the smaller race out in the open. Now, I can assume that the titans are careful in general, but would this cause issues largely?
Little folks don't go out into the open. That's just the way you have to do it. They stay on shelves on the wall if they want to interact with the big folk, or tunnels if they need privacy. At the worst, you stick to the edge of the wall.

If you look at nature, you'll see this is the way things are generally done. Small creatures stay away from the big ones, or they stick to tunnels and terrain.
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