Dealing with High Stat players

[Barmace]

So my question is how do you deal with someone that has a 20 on their stat.

Bow with adj Dex of 20 means that in a normal situation he will need a 16, 17, 18 to miss. I think he would probably hit almost every time.

A Strength 20 most normal strength checks would be pretty easy to get same rule applies that DX has.

An IQ of 20 would mean that most IQ rolls would be a success.

I am talking normal not adjusted - example a St 30 door or a high Dex villain attempting to dodge and runs towards the bow man.

I am talking normal no real adj. Like punching a guy in the face, or swinging a sword at a villian.

I just get my head around how to challenge a high level person?

[Shostak]

Did you see Hexagram no. 6? "Naturalist's Notebook" has a variety of nasties that could take a high-stat character down a peg or two.

Also, a number of weak adversaries can outflank a strong one and take them down in a hurry. A simple Sleep or Freeze spell can do wonders.

[hcobb]

Your adjDX 20 bowman vs a half dozen skeletons?

Also stat inflation is over in Legacy. It costs 8k XP to add the 41st attribute point. So if half of your 40 attribute points are in one stat then the other two stats average to 10.

[Peter von Kleinsmid]

I find that if the GM determines what happens by natural cause and effect, that TFT tends to play out rather well, even with a high-stat character. If the GM intentionally causes things to show up that will counter PC's strengths, that tends not to work as well. Natural consequences and challenges the PCs take on by their own choice, tend to be far more satisfying, than challenges the GM makes appear simply because the PCs have high attribute levels!

High statistics can and do provide the natural advantages they're supposed to, and players should get to make use of high abilities they've earned in ways that make sense.

But it's quite difficult to get very high attribute levels, particularly multiple high attributes. And even with high attributes, effective play is the main thing needed to avoid dangers.

Players with strong abilities will tend to both enjoy their successes (let them) and most will tend to then push what they try to do, to include more and more challenging situations and opponents. They may make a reputation (and/or adversaries) for themselves, which can also tend to create natural challenges.

All that said, there are situations that can challenge even people with very high attributes, even in things that involve those attributes.

High DX people may even prefer to fight in adverse conditions that effect everyone, such as darkness or fog, broken ground, or after a Dazzle spell has gone off. They may also choose to take on extra penalties that others would not, to get advantages not easily available to others, such as taking Aimed Shots, fighting from precarious positions where others don't expect them to go (e.g. atop piles of bodies), making Shrewd attacks, or jumping wide pits or other obstacles.

High ST people may be able to pull off feats such as knocking open heavy doors, great leaps, or carrying fallen comrades away to be healed before more foes show up. But there are always stronger obstacles, feats, or monsters than the strongest humans, so that type of challenge doesn't really have an upper limit.

High IQ can be very effective at making rolls, but IQ rolls only get offered to people based on the situation, and intelligence and experience only go so far. Often specific talents are needed to get a roll at all. Also, it's important for the GM to learn how to assess the difficulty of situations, and not to shy away from having some things require very high die rolls. Sure, high IQ figures can make 3d rolls almost always, but those are only for relatively easy things that a smart experienced person with the right talent should be able to succeed at. Things that would be more challenging would be 4d rolls. And there would be quite a few things that could require 5d, 6d or even higher rolls. In particular, notice that Alertness and Detect Traps can remove multiple dice from a roll, but some things may be very difficult to notice indeed, even for them, which means a 6d, 7d, maybe even 8d roll.

The GM may also want to do multiple rolls for some things, to determine whether they occur, for situations where random circumstances are a major determining factor which couldn't be overcome just by a high attribute. For example, to find someone in a certain place... well, they need to actually be there - what's the chance of that? The GM might determine Clem the Unlucky is only in town each day on a roll of 9 or less of 3d (which has nothing to do with the IQ of people looking for him), and if so, only if he's around give a 4/IQ roll to find him, or 3/IQ if they have Streetwise or good information about where he hangs out.

[TippetsTX]

This was more of an issue under the 'classic' TFT rules. Players will find it very difficult to achieve individual stat values that exceed 16 or so using the LE system.

That said, I've always found that throwing multiple opponents at a high-stat character is a great way to reduce their advantage.

Plus everything Peter said. ;)

[hcobb]

One of the reasons to advance DX to 18 is to enable the wearing of Fine Plate, as this is no longer enabled as an advantage of great ST. The remaining issue is the weight of the armor which can be worked around by taking a dwarf (as Dwarves carry heavier loads than mules).

[larsdangly]

All of these are highly capable sounding characters in the right situation, but there are no game breakers. And if you have a score of 20 in one stat then your other two probably average 10 or less, which is a pair of big problems. Basically, don't worry about it.

[JohnPaulB]

Originally Posted by Barmace

So my question is how do you deal with someone that has a 20 on their stat.

... I just get my head around how to challenge a high level person?

Two assumptions I have on this:
1) Are you playing a one-off game where the players are creating 40 point characters for that game OR did the player grow their character up to this ability level?

1a) As has been mentioned in previous answers, the players are trying to compensate for liabilities the game sets upon them, like armor DX reduction.
1b) If the player has taken the time to grow the character through XP you have given them, then they are being creative. If they do it to the detriment of IQ, throw them a lot of illusion/images.

2) Is this ability level frustrating your capacity to run the game OR are you just looking for mechanical ways to make the game play well with these high abilities?

2a) When characters routinely run amok in your games and ruin it for you, there are things you can do to bring them back to a lower rating. See below.
2b) Some game mechanics have been mentioned in previous answers.

Here are some (2a) things you can do to reel them in a bit.

• Make them ill = Hexagram 3 Easy Sneezy: Illness & Recovery. This has ways of giving them colds or diseases.
• Give them poison = Hexagram 5 Pick your Poison: Toxins in TFT. This has ways of giving them hurt without more hit point damage. Additional bad effects.
• Give them alternate damage: Hexagram 7 Temporary Handicaps. This is a way of giving them short-term physical or mental problems.

There can be all sorts of City or County law violations that can have the character arrested if they keep doing what they are doing.


And lastly, a variant of Apotheosis ITL p 85.

Living Apotheosis
If a living character becomes so powerful as to be "god-like", he may be lifted up into the heavens and become a demi-god.
Living Apotheosis is the process of becoming a god. Throughout history (on Cidri, and on every Earth known) there occur occasional reports of heroes who have been taken to the heavens after routinely leading their people to victory or perform other similarly unlikely feats.
There are many suggestions as to how and why this occurs. The most logical seems to involve a process of "mass belief." Who knows?
In game terms, this means that a GM might occasionally choose to have a suprahuman player-character return as a GM Character: a supernatural righter of wrongs and defender of the weak, appearing only when a deus ex machina is required. (NOTE: parts are paraphrased to fit Living Apotheosis.)
The player should be proud of the character: he/she has become a legend.

Have the characters hear rumors sprinkled about god-like humans taken up to the heavens when they become to powerful. The GM could secretly make it contingent on a certain threshold point value like a 41 point character, etc.

[hcobb]

One of my house rules is to enable the larger races to buy ST cheaper. For example a Reptile Man can buy (in my games) great ST for an eighth the cost a human pays. This is of course taken as an example of how I oppress the noble Reptile Person race.

https://www.hcobb.com/tft/house_rules.html#Health

[Barmace]

I guess my question is really just how do you roll (handle) for a high level stat?

for shooting a bow...a 20 Dex would never miss on a simple thing but of cource harder things it will. But most of the time. they will roll 16-18 is a miss as opposed to a 12 Dex which has a much bigger gap To Hit.

I was just using the example so that I can understand how to handle someone with a high stat. A strength of 20. How would I hold someone in a cage unless it is specially made? But in a common jail in a common town. He could break out pretty easily.

What I am looking for is suggestions for those that have very high Stats could be just STR. DEX, or IQ....I know I am putting the Cart before the horse.

Starting the best a warrior can do it
St. 16 Dex 8 IQ 8

A thief would be
ST 8 DEX 16 IQ 8

But even a few levels could really tip the scales on the game. I know that Dex of 8 you will not hit very often or Strength 8 you will not do a ton of damage. I am just looking for suggestions maybe 6 months or a year end. right now I am confident on handling a 32 point character it is when they get into 42 and above where it can get tricky

I guess off the top of my head...each city or adventure will just get harder and harder like if I have a 42 point character they will only face 40-50 point encounters?