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Old 09-06-2014, 04:23 PM   #91
TheVaultDweller
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Altered Time Rate

Kind of raising this thread a little bit. I'm currently adapting Shadowrun for GURPS, specifically, Shadowrun 3rd Edition (this seems like a popular topic, btw, I've seen multiple conversions), and of course I've stumbled upon Wired Reflexes and multiple actions.

Now, I'm handling low-level Boosted Reflexes and Wired Reflexes as a combination of extra Basic Speed, Combat Reflexes, Enhanced Defenses (Extra Parry and Block) and Extra Attack (Multistrike).

But for the high grade Wired Reflexes, I'm thinking about ATR. I know it's not very realistic, but it does fit the Shadowrun cannon. So, this is what I've come up with:
  • Altered Time Rate (Fast Reflexes) [50]: This is a “combat only” variant of Altered Time Rate, with some limitations built in it. First, the character needs to spend 1 FP every minute to use it, pure and simple. This usually means one FP point per combat, but could be more in a running firefight or something like that. Secondly, the character can’t use it to speed up normal tasks, at all. Third, he does not get any extra AP and he ONLY rolls to get back AP if he takes Do Nothing or Wait maneuvers for an entire second (i.e, a full turn). Fourth, while the character does move twice as fast, he also spends fatigue twice as fast, on top of his activation FP cost. This means the character actually runs or sprints less distance than as he would without ATR, but he gets there faster. And lastly, his actions do not happen back to back, but do so in the same way as Shadowrun 3rd Edition initiative, i.e, everyone goes at least once, then the characters with ATR go again, in the same initiative order. There’s also a side effect: the character gains “Impulsiveness” for the duration of the time he’s accelerated and I mainly use this as a way to only give the player a small time window (5 to 10 seconds) to decide what he’s doing on his next turn.

So, what do you guys think about it? Is it fair at 50 points? Should it be cheaper or more expensive? Is there any unintended consequences that I'm not seeing?

Notice that this will come with the Electrical limitation for Cyberware, so it will actually cost 40 points.
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Old 09-06-2014, 09:12 PM   #92
sir_pudding
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Altered Time Rate

Altered Time Rate (Costs FP -5%, Aspected: Combat -10%, Temporary Disadvantage (Impulsiveness (NA)) -20%) is [65]. The other stuff looks like either the way it ought to work anyway with Last Gasp or a +0% modifier.
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Old 09-06-2014, 09:54 PM   #93
The Benj
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Altered Time Rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVaultDweller View Post
Kind of raising this thread a little bit. I'm currently adapting Shadowrun for GURPS, specifically, Shadowrun 3rd Edition (this seems like a popular topic, btw, I've seen multiple conversions), and of course I've stumbled upon Wired Reflexes and multiple actions.

Now, I'm handling low-level Boosted Reflexes and Wired Reflexes as a combination of extra Basic Speed, Combat Reflexes, Enhanced Defenses (Extra Parry and Block) and Extra Attack (Multistrike).

But for the high grade Wired Reflexes, I'm thinking about ATR. I know it's not very realistic, but it does fit the Shadowrun cannon. So, this is what I've come up with:
[LIST]
Altered Time Rate (Fast Reflexes) [50]: This is a “combat only” variant of Altered Time Rate, with some limitations built in it. First, the character needs to spend 1 FP every minute to use it, pure and simple. This usually means one FP point per combat, but could be more in a running firefight or something like that.
Yep, Costs FP, very simple.

Quote:
Secondly, the character can’t use it to speed up normal tasks, at all.
"Normal tasks" meaning what?

Quote:
Third, he does not get any extra AP and he ONLY rolls to get back AP if he takes Do Nothing or Wait maneuvers for an entire second (i.e, a full turn).

Fourth, while the character does move twice as fast, he also spends fatigue twice as fast, on top of his activation FP cost. This means the character actually runs or sprints less distance than as he would without ATR, but he gets there faster.
I'd price these two together as -15%

Quote:
And lastly, his actions do not happen back to back, but do so in the same way as Shadowrun 3rd Edition initiative, i.e, everyone goes at least once, then the characters with ATR go again, in the same initiative order.
Why?

Quote:
There’s also a side effect: the character gains “Impulsiveness” for the duration of the time he’s accelerated and I mainly use this as a way to only give the player a small time window (5 to 10 seconds) to decide what he’s doing on his next turn.
Is this an actual side effect of Wired Reflexes, or do you just not want the extended decision-making time that's written into ATR? (Which is, I think, merely a legacy of its pre-Enhanced Time Sense origins)

Quote:
So, what do you guys think about it? Is it fair at 50 points? Should it be cheaper or more expensive? Is there any unintended consequences that I'm not seeing?
Notice that this will come with the Electrical limitation for Cyberware, so it will actually cost 40 points.
Accepting the good Knight's Aspected:Combat recommendation, I count:

ATR (Aspected:Combat -10%, Costs 1 FP/minute -10%, Tiring -15%, Electrical -16%, Impulsiveness, Irresistible -20%) [34]

But that build assumes the user will be Impulsive in every way while this is on, not just that they'll only have a normal window of decision time.
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Old 09-07-2014, 07:41 PM   #94
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Altered Time Rate

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Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
  1. Have you used Altered Time Rate for any of your characters before?
  2. How well has it worked for you, or those you've gamed with whose characters have possessed Altered Time Rate?
  3. Are there any areas of confusion or uncertainty with regards to it?
  4. Is there anything you might like to change about it?
1) Yes, the second character I ever built and played used it in a scifi game, my guy duel wielded monowire whips.

2) I liked it a lot, I wanted a character who could go really fast and had lots of options in what he could do in a second. That's what I got.

3) There are, as other have noted things get confusing when an extra maneuver in a second meets with things that normally should not be able to happen twice in a second there is a bit of strangeness.

4) I like it how it is, its not perfect but I'm not sure it needs to be.
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Old 09-12-2014, 09:23 PM   #95
Joel
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Altered Time Rate

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Originally Posted by Dustin View Post
2) Past certain point values (say 500 points) ATR starts to look very attractive as a plain force multiplier for a character. In a supers campaign, at least one level of ATR might be de rigeur. Comics characters like Wolverine and The Hulk are sometimes depicted as having reflexes and reaction times that far exceed those of normal humans, without being depicted as "speedsters". An interesting campaign could make levels of ATR part of the standard supers template, one of the things that sets you apart from normal humans.
Pretty much this. ATR (unmodified) at 100 points means you're a 0-points character with 2 turns worth of actions, which is probably worse than a 100 point character with 1 turns of actions. OTOH at 1000 points it means you're a 900 point character with 2 turns worth of actions, and a 900 point character is a lot more competetive with a 1k point character than a 0 point character is with a 100 point one. The higher the point-total of the game the better it gets. It's a bit weak compared to Duplication (which also gives more actions but costs a lot less points, though it requires a second 'activate' and split off a duplicate but thats just one level of reduced time which still puts it at 42 points to ATRs 100), but together at higher point totals they're completely ridiculous.

Time Mastery (from Powers) includes all of Altered Time Rate + Duplication + Enhanced Time Sense, which you can combine for good results; 296 points put into Altered Time Rate 1 + Duplication (Construct, Reduced Time, Sequential) 4 + Enhanced Times Sense gives 10 turns worth of actions before anyone else gets to do anything.

Last edited by Joel; 09-12-2014 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 02-20-2022, 06:10 PM   #96
Eric Funk
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Altered Time Rate

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Originally Posted by Langy View Post
I missed this when I quoted it earlier, but ATR explicitly only gives you extra maneuvers. It does not give you extra 'turns'. I forget why exactly this matters, though:/ Possibly because 'turn' isn't a term of art in GURPS? *shrug*
B363 "Your Turn" is the one-second period in which you act which overlaps with other characters. "Maneuver" is is an action you can take on your turn...

ATR multiplies with levels of Extra Attack! (per "Extra Attacks" MA126), so ATR1 (2 maneuvers) x ExtraAttack2 (3 attacks) = 6attacks...
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