Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > Roleplaying in General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-20-2021, 05:08 PM   #61
kirbwarrior
 
kirbwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dreamland
Default Re: Create Food and it's effect on infrastructure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
The rule from Ritual Path Magic is that magically-conjured food needs to last at least 3 days to provide sustenance. That's looking at things a bit more scientifically, however (that's roughly how long something takes to go from snack to stool) - the metaphysics of your setting may well decide once something has been "consumed" (at whatever point of the eating+digestion process you set that - RPM appears to set it at "the waste has left your body") it's now a part of you, and thus no longer under the dominion of the person who conjured it up - which also means their limit is reset, so they can make more.
I'd definitely do it by the latter. Things get incredibly convoluted and just annoying for everyone involved if I do it 'scientifically'. Plus, that would entirely undermine the idea since most people want to eat more than one 'basic' meal every three days. That's neat to know about RPM, though.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
While I do not think that GURPS is perfect I do think that it is more balanced than what I am likely to create by GM fiat.
kirbwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2021, 07:09 PM   #62
dcarson
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Default Re: Create Food and it's effect on infrastructure

If you are using RPM making 30 pounds of food is only a +1 energy. So create enough for three of you and then let someone else create the next day etc. and back to you on day four.
dcarson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2021, 09:42 PM   #63
DarkPumpkin
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Cidri (exact location withheld)
Default Re: Create Food and it's effect on infrastructure

Regarding magic's effect on world development, I look at it this way:
1. The pseudo-medieval (or Bronze Age, etc) is the end result desired for storytelling or atmosphere purposes
2. Magic which would disrupt this if it were common, is therefore not common
100% the story and desired world comes first, not the "rules as physics engine".
Done.
DarkPumpkin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2021, 04:24 AM   #64
Michele
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Udine, Italy
Default Re: Create Food and it's effect on infrastructure

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPumpkin View Post
Regarding magic's effect on world development, I look at it this way:
1. The pseudo-medieval (or Bronze Age, etc) is the end result desired for storytelling or atmosphere purposes
2. Magic which would disrupt this if it were common, is therefore not common
100% the story and desired world comes first, not the "rules as physics engine".
Done.
Right, that's what I'd do. BUt the real problem, I believe, is answering the question:
- Would this kind of magic disrupt the end result I want? Am I sure that there wouldn't be unforeseen applications that bright players would immediately notice, even if as of now they escape me, the designer?
__________________
Michele Armellini
GURPS Locations: St. George's Cathedral
Michele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2021, 07:09 AM   #65
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Create Food and it's effect on infrastructure

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
I'd definitely do it by the latter. Things get incredibly convoluted and just annoying for everyone involved if I do it 'scientifically'. Plus, that would entirely undermine the idea since most people want to eat more than one 'basic' meal every three days. That's neat to know about RPM, though.
Yeah, just set roughly when in the eating+digesting process the food stops being "magically conjured food" and starts being "part of the consumer." In theory, if you do this early enough, there's the possibility of some culture doing things more bird/wolf-style - gorge on magically conjured food, wait until it passes the threshold, vomit it up, and repeat until you've got enough partially-digested food slurry to feed a lot of people. You then process the slurry into something more palatable and there you go. This is pretty disgusting, but might fit certain narratives. It's roughly comparable to an idea I had a while back, where the setting's equivalent of Create Food simply gave nutritional and caloric value to existing matter and made it edible, but did nothing for the taste and texture. One of the countries was a barren land that had high goldmine productivity (gold being necessary for magic - essentially gold's luster served the role of mana, and casting turned it into a dull gray metal that otherwise had all the physical properties of gold), and it largely fed its people dirt and mud that had been magically enhanced into food (the higher ups imported proper food from elsewhere).

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcarson View Post
If you are using RPM making 30 pounds of food is only a +1 energy. So create enough for three of you and then let someone else create the next day etc. and back to you on day four.
I mean, if using RPM, there's no limit to how many times you can create food (outside of the time required to gather energy, anyway). It's just that you need to create it with a Duration of 3 days or more. You could easily just do the ritual 3 times a day (for each of breakfast, lunch, and dinner), and so long it had a Duration of 3 days or longer, you'd be fine. Of course, you'd be feeding multiple people with each casting, as IIRC you can create up to 10 pounds without needing to feed any more energy into the ritual.
__________________
GURPS Overhaul
Varyon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2021, 09:24 AM   #66
jason taylor
 
jason taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Default Re: Create Food and it's effect on infrastructure

Suppose there are only a few mages or shamans or whatever with this power and they must abide by a series of Gaes-like rules? That could be the setting of a quest to restore the magic.
__________________
"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison
jason taylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2021, 10:38 AM   #67
The Colonel
 
The Colonel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Default Re: Create Food and it's effect on infrastructure

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason taylor View Post
Suppose there are only a few mages or shamans or whatever with this power and they must abide by a series of Gaes-like rules? That could be the setting of a quest to restore the magic.
If you want a limiter on it, "Create Food" is often portrayed as Divine "magic" and gods are traditionally resistant to those who appear to be trying to game the system.

Probably the most famous examples in Western culture would be Manna (which rotted if stored overnight except at Shabat or if placed in The Ark) or the miracles where Jesus fed four thousand on one occasion and five thousand at another, by infinitely subdividing existing food (although interestingly both of these latter miracles did generate a significant surplus so perhaps if you get a powerful enough caster...). Maybe the miraculous catches of fish and the turning of water into wine count as well? It does appear that Jesus respected Maslow's hierarchy when it came to dealing with his congregation.
The only other such miracle I can think of from pagan sources would be the goats of Thor, but there may be others. The Sampo produced "meal" but didn't see much action. Was the cornucopia meant to be an actual thing?
The Colonel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2021, 03:19 AM   #68
Inky
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: UK
Default Re: Create Food and it's effect on infrastructure

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornuc...oman_mythology Yup.
__________________
Looking for online text-based game at a UK-feasible time, anything considered, Roll20 preferred. http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=168443
Inky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2021, 12:36 PM   #69
ak_aramis
 
ak_aramis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alsea, OR
Default Re: Create Food and it's effect on infrastructure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michele View Post
Well, most of the historical settings over human history featured slavery, and it was a fact of life. Naturally, PCs could be not wealthy enough to own slaves, or non-conformists who don't want to own other humans, or even abolitionists. But to have an entirey society without slavery, at TL3, then probably only having Create Food relatively common isn't enough, for the reasons I mentioned.

You either have to go all-out post-scarcity, for everything and not just food (and even then that might not entirely rule out violence and servitude); or you have to make it so that the result of the resource situation is an essentially classless, not stratified society (think hunter-gatherer bands).
Even some hunter-gatherer societies had slavery, but not technically chattel slavery. A few of the US plains tribes required captives to work, and used coerced marriage to bind captive women to the tribe. Likewise, I've read that certain tribes in Alaska used enslavement for term as a punishment just shy of banishment.
ak_aramis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2021, 09:42 PM   #70
kirbwarrior
 
kirbwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dreamland
Default Re: Create Food and it's effect on infrastructure

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPumpkin View Post
Regarding magic's effect on world development, I look at it this way:
1. The pseudo-medieval (or Bronze Age, etc) is the end result desired for storytelling or atmosphere purposes
2. Magic which would disrupt this if it were common, is therefore not common
100% the story and desired world comes first, not the "rules as physics engine".
Done.
When I want to be simpler about things, I definitely do this, but it doesn't work when I do want something to be categorically different without significantly changing the feel of the setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Yeah, just set roughly when in the eating+digesting process the food stops being "magically conjured food" and starts being "part of the consumer." In theory, if you do this early enough, there's the possibility of some culture doing things more bird/wolf-style - gorge on magically conjured food, wait until it passes the threshold, vomit it up, and repeat until you've got enough partially-digested food slurry to feed a lot of people.
I'd probably have the magic food become "part of the consumer" more literally for it to make sense at all, which means this kind of thing wouldn't necessarily work.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
While I do not think that GURPS is perfect I do think that it is more balanced than what I am likely to create by GM fiat.
kirbwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
food, food preparation, magic, world design

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.