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Old 03-29-2022, 10:41 AM   #21
Kesendeja
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Default Re: Please Help: Cyberpunk Style Humanity

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
I know, you've already ditched the idea, but this is one of those examples of importing a foreign game mechanic when GURPs already had a native mechanic available to perform the same function. There would be no difference between spending points to buy off lowered "humanity" and just spending points to get the cyberware itself. And if you go into point debt...you acquire Disadvantages, right?
Cyberware was to be bought with cash only. And the humanity loss could be bought back, but if you went to far into debt you ended up with disadvantages, which would dissapear when your humanity rose high enough to "pay" for them.
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Old 03-29-2022, 11:15 AM   #22
Opellulo
 
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Default Re: Please Help: Cyberpunk Style Humanity

I don't know, I still think that "Humanity" is a core concept in Cyb2020/Red but it must be a game theme in addition to being a game mechanic.

Cyberpunk has deadly encounters and health mechanics to reflect permanent injuries. Installing Cyberware is a both a power level check, a game style balance AND a player choice.
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Old 03-29-2022, 11:37 AM   #23
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Please Help: Cyberpunk Style Humanity

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Originally Posted by Kesendeja View Post
Cyberware was to be bought with cash only. And the humanity loss could be bought back, but if you went to far into debt you ended up with disadvantages, which would dissapear when your humanity rose high enough to "pay" for them.
Not true. Cyberware was being bought with cash and humanity. Which given that humanity can be bought with points is the same thing with extra steps.
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Old 03-30-2022, 02:22 AM   #24
warellis
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Default Re: Please Help: Cyberpunk Style Humanity

Regarding CP2020, wasn’t recently revealed (retconned) in Red/2077 that all the cyber psychosis stuff was just from faulty prototypes being pushed onto users?
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Old 03-30-2022, 03:22 AM   #25
Aldric
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Default Re: Please Help: Cyberpunk Style Humanity

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Originally Posted by warellis View Post
Regarding CP2020, wasn’t recently revealed (retconned) in Red/2077 that all the cyber psychosis stuff was just from faulty prototypes being pushed onto users?
Not sure about 2077, but Red still has Humanity Loss for cyberware
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Old 03-30-2022, 03:25 AM   #26
The Colonel
 
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Default Re: Please Help: Cyberpunk Style Humanity

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
You need to have a scale that's beyond "fairly normative" and with little scop

I had the cataract-filled lenses of my eyes removed and replaced with synthetic lenses. The surgical proceedure is truly trivial. You can walk out of the horpital less than 3 hours after you go in and most of that time was either waiting for the surgery or waking up after it.

The only downside was that there was excess glue under my eyelid which caused some irritation and a little blurring for the rest of that day. I wake up the next morning and 30 years had been taken off my eyes.

You're going to need a category of trivially difficult and invasive proceedures with basically no downsides and with futuristic technology that list could be even broader than it is today.
Could just not call it cyberware and say that you've paid cash and points to buy off a disadvantage... you've not really modified yourself, so much as had a problem fixed. Even Lasik to correct myopia probably isn't really a body mod ... it's still you in the same way that having a set of glasses bolted onto your face wouldn't be.
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Old 03-30-2022, 10:55 AM   #27
the-red-scare
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Default Re: Please Help: Cyberpunk Style Humanity

Red only applies the humanity cost to voluntary cyberware, not to medical/corrective cyberware. The idea being that fixing a problem makes you “whole” and doesn’t affect your sense of self, but upgrading is treating your body like a thing and if people are just things then over time moral worth stops applying to them. Basically.
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Old 03-30-2022, 11:17 AM   #28
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Please Help: Cyberpunk Style Humanity

Quote:
Originally Posted by warellis View Post
Regarding CP2020, wasn’t recently revealed (retconned) in Red/2077 that all the cyber psychosis stuff was just from faulty prototypes being pushed onto users?
My only real exposure to the setting is from what I've played through of Cyberpunk 2077, but this shard (the CP2077 equivalent of lore books and the like) indicates it is, indeed, about treating one's body as just an object (exacerbated by the general dehumanization rampant in the setting). Also, I doubt Lizzy Wizzy is using untested prototypes (she's a world-famous performance artist who has basically replaced her entire body with chrome), but in the latter half of the Violence side quest she seemed to be exhibiting clear symptoms of "lost humanity" (potentially to the extent of low-grade cyberpsychosis).

Of course, cyberware needn't be voluntary to cause cyberpsychosis - one of the cyberpsychos you need to pacify as one of the "Cyberpsycho Sighting" sidejobs is a person who Maelstrom thugs kidnapped and purposefully heavily-implanted just for fun (although in that case, arguably the cyberpsychotic break was due to the character essentially being tortured, rather than just having too many implants). Of course, several of those missions involve characters who may well have suffered psychotic breaks for reasons largely unrelated to their cyberware - I believe the former Tyger Claw who was hunting and killing his old associates had recently found out said associates had murdered his girlfriend, for example, and there's a war veteran who's daughter was turned into a "Doll" by one of the gangs (I think the Tyger Claws, again), and is similarly hunting down and killing them.
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