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Old 08-03-2009, 01:25 PM   #21
Agramer
 
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Default Re: Star Wars: Imperial Stormtroopers

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Originally Posted by SuedodeuS View Post
Just out of curiosity, where are you getting these numbers from? Personally, I'd probably give Green and Average troops around the same base skill, but Average troops would have better Soldier and Tactics skills - meaning they tend to make better use of cover to get some good Aim bonuses.
Mass Combat 3e

1 char point = 100 hours with teacher.
Green troops dont(realistically) have 100 hours of shooting practice.

DX 10 = average stat (could be 11 due "higher quality" of pop OR front line troops ,but not in mass mobilisations)

Guns dx average 1 point = skill 9

100 yards(metars) = -10 penalty
Modern rifles = cca 5 Accuracy

9+5+4(stationary target,out of combat) +2 extra 2 turns of aim +1 bracing = 21 skill +4 (targeting hex = targets are usually 1*1 metar(yard) =25

25-10 = they reliably hit those targets

In real combat at 100 yards distance + cover penalties = very very rare hits/amount of shoots.

Veterans on other hand have 14+1bracing+5 aim+2 extra 2 sec = 24-10 = 14 to hit .(Though with bullets flying around cut that down to 1 sec aim + duck for cover,add -4 for enemy behind wall,window,in ditch and you get rare hits again ... but if veteran has opportunity to take his time he will score a hit)
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Old 08-03-2009, 01:46 PM   #22
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Default Re: Star Wars: Imperial Stormtroopers

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If you go by what the movies portray, they tend to be extremely green.
If you go by "What characters in movie said about Stormtroopers" than they are Elite.

If you go by "What you see with your eyes in movie" than random militia guys would whoop floor with them.


Episode IV:



Obi van Kenobi: And these blast points, too accurate for Sandpeople. Only Imperial stormtroopers are so precise.


Princess Leia Organa: to Luke, who's disguised as a Stormtrooper] Aren't you a little short for a Stormtrooper?
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Old 08-03-2009, 02:25 PM   #23
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Default Re: Star Wars: Imperial Stormtroopers

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So from whatever angle I look I simply cant picture them in any other way but as veteran+ quality.
I agree that they are a tiny force. But their main qualification is loyalty, not necessarily military skills. If you select for loyalty and obedience, and fire everybody who has an independent thought, you will probably not get very good soldiers.
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Old 08-03-2009, 03:20 PM   #24
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Default Re: Star Wars: Imperial Stormtroopers

Well SS Waffen in WW II Germany was Elite.

Id say Stormtroopers = Waffen SS
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Old 08-03-2009, 03:52 PM   #25
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Default Re: Star Wars: Imperial Stormtroopers

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Only in the presence of protagonists.

Stormtroopers can be quite lethal when killing people without script protection.
Indeed. Somehow, many people manage to overlook the fact that in the first five minutes of the original Star Wars movie, we watch Stormtroopers wipe the floor with the crew of the Tantive IV. Not only do the Stormtroopers not flinch under fire, they appear to outshoot the Rebels. One of them manages to stun Leia, too. In Empire, they hold their own in the Battle of Hoth and their mere presence forces the residents of Bespin to submit. Oh, yeah... and on Hoth, the Stormtroopers won. Actually, the Stormtroopers lose only one battle in the entirety of the original trilogy... at the end RotJ, they are overwhelmed by sheer numbers of cannibalistic teddy bears led by a squad of elite Rebel commandoes. Every other battle results in a Rebel rout.

And yet, no one makes jokes about the Rebel Academy of Honorable Retreat and Surrender...
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Old 08-03-2009, 03:56 PM   #26
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Default Re: Star Wars: Imperial Stormtroopers

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Originally Posted by Pomphis View Post
I agree that they are a tiny force. But their main qualification is loyalty, not necessarily military skills. If you select for loyalty and obedience, and fire everybody who has an independent thought, you will probably not get very good soldiers.
Indeed. The Stormtroopers are not "very good soldiers," they are primarily a blunt instrument. As nearly as I can tell, the main qualifications are zeal for the New Order and fitting into the armor. After that, the Stormtrooper Corps depends on rigorous training that (presumably) washes out the psychological unsuitable and the incompetent. According to some EU sources, many Stormtrooper officers are actually recruited from the Army or the ISB.

According to canon, the Stormtrooper presence in many major battles hinges on their unwavering loyalty, as they endure withering casualties against dug-in Rebel forces. This actually resulted in the acceleration of the replacement of clones with more recruits.
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Old 08-03-2009, 04:18 PM   #27
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Default Re: Star Wars: Imperial Stormtroopers

If talking about Clone troopers:

They had 10ish years of intensive military training with TL 10+ equipement simulating real battlefileld.

They are clearly Veteran + quality.

Clone Commandos = pure Elite
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Old 08-04-2009, 02:02 AM   #28
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Default Re: Star Wars: Imperial Stormtroopers

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Originally Posted by Agramer View Post
Well SS Waffen in WW II Germany was Elite.

Id say Stormtroopers = Waffen SS
Careful. The early Waffen-SS, before it got that name, was loyal, fanatic and brave, but hadnīt spent many points on Tactics and Soldier and took unnecessary risks and losses in poland and france. The later Waffen-SS varied very much in quality. And the good combat records of several divisons can be explained to considerable amount by those divisions being bigger and having more and better equipment that comparable wehrmacht units.
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Old 08-04-2009, 02:26 AM   #29
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Default Re: Star Wars: Imperial Stormtroopers

I tend to view Stomtroopers as being well-equipped (relatively) with their special armor and useful because of their numbers and unswerving loyalty. My take is that their tactical effectiveness depends a lot on effective leadership, both by using veterans imbedded in the command structure and by employing a competent officer corps. To me, basic stormtrooper training focuses on drill, drill, drill.
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Old 08-04-2009, 05:07 PM   #30
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Default Re: Star Wars: Imperial Stormtroopers

Unfortunately for the Stormtroopers, their "Special Armor", doesn't do diddlysquat to protect them, because are easily shot and fall down a lot!
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