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#1 |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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I was wondering about the realistic maximum of bonuses that one could get to Holdout from using clothing and holsters designed to conceal smallarms.
Undercover Clothing (High-Tech p. 64) exists in Good and Fine varieties, which give +1 and +2 (quality) bonus to Holdout, respectively, cumulative with the bonuses for concealable holsters. On High-Tech p. 154 we have the Undercover Holster, which gives a +1 Holdout bonus. On Tactical Shooting p. 73 there is Concealed Carry Clothing and the Shoulder Rig. The Concealed LBW on Tactical Shooting p. 72 is especially noted as existing in a more expensive version that is x5 Cost and gives +1 (quality) bonus to Holdout. I was wondering if there were Good and Fine versions of Undercover Holsters, for x5 and x20 Cost. If they exist, what real-world models of holster would qualify for these levels of quality? I strongly suspect that Fine-quality is something that would have to be specially made, if that level of bonus is even possible, but is Good-quality commercially available? That would give a +2 Holdout bonus in total, which would be cumulative with a maximum of +2 bonus for a very expensive tailored suit designed to hide a weapon. What would be the inclination of other forumites? Are there real-world Undercover Holsters that are much more expensive than $125 and actually offer an improvement in performance that would justify a +1 or +2 to Holdout in GURPS terms? If so, which models?
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Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela! Last edited by Icelander; 08-31-2014 at 06:53 AM. Reason: Thanks mods, for moving this to the right forum. |
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#2 |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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A related issue is how to modify Holdout for the amount of clothing worn. We've canonical examples of the extremes of the range, but that leaves a lot of interpretation to do at the +/- 3 range to Holdout, which is practically speaking going to be the most common situation.
Here's a horrifically formatted table, with the canonical values bolded and with some suggestions slotted in:
I dunno, I'm not really comfortable with the examples near the middle. I want to better establish what outfits give no modifier to Holdout and what typical +/- 2 outfits are.
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Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela! Last edited by Icelander; 08-31-2014 at 02:37 PM. |
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#3 |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Are the Fast-Draw and Holdout modifiers for Concealed Carry Clothing (Tactical Shooting p. 73) and Undercover Holster (High-Tech p. 154) cumulative?
That is, do you get +3 Holdout and -3 Fast-Draw for carrying your sidearm in an Undercover Holster in Concealed Carry Clothing? Are Fast-Draw modifiers for awkward locations (small of back, ankle, etc.) assumed to be a part of the -2 Fast-Draw you get for typical Concealed Carry Clothing or are those penalties added on top of them?
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#4 | |
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The plutonium rich regions of Washington State
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Luke |
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#5 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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I imagine that Holdout 0 modifier clothing is something that neither suggests an outfit chosen especially to make it easier to conceal a weapon nor an outfit that would make it harder. Personally, I regard outfits with untucked shirts as much less 'regular' or 'normal' than an outfit with the shirt cleanly tucked in the pants. Untucked shirts, to me, suggest 'lumberjack' or 'Seattle-based grunge musician'. But that might be a consequence of expecting Status 1 clothing in a professional setting or something.
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#6 | |
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Heartland, U.S.A.
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#7 | |
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The plutonium rich regions of Washington State
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Of course, if you know what to look for, you give people with untucked shirts an extra glance to see if there are suspicious bulges at their belt-line. This may be an argument for reducing any bonus for wearing this kind of clothing, because it can draw extra scrutiny. Also, an untucked shirt is good for concealing a pistol on your hip, but wouldn't do much for concealing a weapon elsewhere. So basic dress for concealing a weapon on your hip may be a jacket, vest, or untucked shirt; for concealing a pistol in a shoulder holster would be a jacket; for concealing a weapon on the ankle would be long pants; for concealing a pistol in a purse would be a purse; for concealing a pistol in a pocket would be a large pocket; and so on. If it were me, I would give all of these situations a zero modifier for holdout - they are good for concealing the weapon, but someone who is looking for a concealed weapon would know where to look and/or search. There could be other situational modifiers, of course. A white guy looking like a redneck wearing an untucked Smith & Wesson t-shirt is likely to draw one's attention to his waist for assymetric bulges, for example (this from real life. I mean come on, Washington is an open carry state - if you are going to be that blatant about it you might as well just show the gun 'cause I doubt many people were fooled and there would have been no annoyances of police asking to see your concealed carry permit all the time). Luke |
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#8 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Of course, this is Florida and the last time I tucked my shirt in was for a funeral. It's the guy in suit and tie that's conspicuous. There were only 3 at said funeral and one was the preacher and another was the music director. Some of the men didn't even wear button-front shirts. Suit and tie would mean Lawyer, Pharmceutical sales rep, preacher or plainclothes detective to me. You might also consider some newish types of clothing like cargo pants. A .380 can fit in one of the big front pockets of those and bulge no more than a wallet. Not even a fat wallet either. It's not even a bad place to draw from. If I was a cop I'd worry about things like this.
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Fred Brackin |
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#9 | |||
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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I'm thinking about a high bonus TDM to Observation (or if the other party is an NPC, a Reaction Roll with modifiers) to determine which members of a crowd are wearing clothing which makes it likely they could conceal whatever you are looking for (usually a weapon, but not necessarily) and note that a lot of routine checks will focus the majority of limited attention spans on scanning those who could theoretically be hiding a weapon. Wearing clothing that gives -2 or more to Holdout, because it doesn't offer any obvious hiding places, ought to be something that reduces the chances that a professional user of Observation devotes any significant time to checking you out. Quote:
I'd say that anything that is both thicker than a thin shirt and consists of more than one layer ought to give a positive TDM unless it is specifically very closely fit to your body. Given that a trench coat (presumably assumed to be worn over normal clothing) is +4 to Holdout, a lot of jackets that are worn over shirts over undershirts are probably +2 to +3 to hide anything under them. Even a thick 'lumberjack' shirt that is wide in fit ought to be +1, I reckon, given that it is significantly less useful for concealing things than a jacket, but still an improvement over a more 'regular' type shirt. Quote:
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#10 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Holdout is such a vital skill for GURPS Cops, GURPS Covert Ops, GURPS Espionage, GURPS Mysteries and even most treatments of GURPS Monster Hunters and GURPS Special Ops. It really begs for the kind of expanded treatment that combat skills and social skills have already gotten. If, perhaps, requiring a slightly shorter supplement. :)
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Tags |
ccw, equipment, high-tech, holdout, tactical shooting |
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