Snatcher, clarifying Recall

Donny Brook · 02-01-2017, 06:55 PM

Snatcher with Recall seems like the perfect match for a power I want to build, but I am concerned about the vagueness of the restriction to "personal possessions ... but not someone else's belongings".

What constitutes the boundary of your possessions? In a DF campaign, when is loot yours and not someone else's anymore? If someone mails you a book you ordered, when can you Snatch it? If you buy gold but leave it on deposit without taking delivery, can you Snatch a bit now and then?

Is there a better formula than 'personal possession' that would serve better?

Ejidoth · 02-01-2017, 08:33 PM

Pick some appropriate amount of time that fits. Maybe an hour or a day.

Rule that after you've had object in your possession for <time>, you've 'attuned' to it and can recall it with Snatcher as one of your personal belongings, at least until someone else possesses the object for <time>.

malloyd · 02-02-2017, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ejidoth

Pick some appropriate amount of time that fits. Maybe an hour or a day.

Rule that after you've had object in your possession for <time>, you've 'attuned' to it and can recall it with Snatcher as one of your personal belongings, at least until someone else possesses the object for <time>.

This is usually how ownership works in cases you need both a hard rule and allowed theft - which is mostly MMORPGs I suppose. Once you steal it and add it to your inventory, the original owner has a limited time to complain, or magically recover it, or otherwise punish you or get it back without worrying about whatever the rules restraining theft are. If he doesn't, it becomes yours after the time lapses.

Leynok · 02-02-2017, 08:41 AM

I would apply a time limit as suggested for stolen items (set this with the GM, and would be used both for when you steal an item and for when the item is stolen from you), but otherwise the item becomes yours when it's previous owner willingly gives it to you (so yes you could snatch it from shipment, as they sent it to you), or when you willingly give up the item to someone else. So in your example where you buy the gold but leave it somewhere, it counts as yours until that time period has passed, so you better have snatched it all back up by then.

Loot gained from a dungeon would have to wait the time period before it counts as yours, while rewards granted to you for your deeds are yours instantly.

Crystalline_Entity · 02-02-2017, 10:13 AM

Personally I'd say you had to touch it, or at least physically be in its presence before you could Snatch it - something you're having shipped to you might legally belong to you, but I'd say you don't have that personal (magical, psionic, etc) connection with it until you actually "have" it with you.

Anaraxes · 02-02-2017, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leynok

yes you could snatch it from shipment, as they sent it to you

It's be rude to Snatch it from the shipping room before they sent out the package, or they'd just have to send another one when they couldn't find the first. Ought to at least watch the tracking number until it's on its way -- though you've got the same problem with confounding the delivery service by Snatching the item in the middle of shipping.

Speaking of which, just to be contrary, the company hasn't given the item to you yet. They gave it to the shipper, acting as their agent to ensure that the thing gets to its ultimate destination for a handoff to its intended future owner. One or the other of them is responsible if it went missing for mundane reasons, so it's not unreasonable to say that it's not really "yours" yet. Once it's your own fault when it goes missing and you have to buy the replacement all over again, then it's "yours".

If it's magic, it's likely all about the symbolism and intent. "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law", which is pretty much the opposite of possession being nine tenths thereof :)

Donny Brook · 02-03-2017, 08:58 AM

Thank you for these very helpful responses.

The genre in my case involves pseudoscience to eplain this ability.

Would you think it would be roughly equivalent to say that instead of 'owning' he must first have tagged the object with an RFID microdot?

While this would allow for stealing anything he could tag, it would not allow Snatching his possessions that are not tagged.

Culture20 · 02-03-2017, 09:44 AM

For a pseudoscience feel, I like the microtransmitter much better, even if it does allow stealing items retroactively. Very much like SG-1 Asgard beaming tech.

For a magic version, I'd apply "possession is nine tenths of the law" style of possession.
1 Who's holding it,
2 whose vault/backpack is it in,
3 who has a bond (weapon bond, signature gear) with the object or who has legal documents proving ownership (or some other proof of ownership like witnesses) if it's just laying about,
4 and then who touched it last if no documents/bonds exist.

This way, a thief could steal an item, it becomes his possession while he holds it and uses it, carries it on his person, but if he sets it down away from himself and does not hand it to another person, then the item could be summoned only if the summoner had a bond or proof of ownership.

Anaraxes · 02-03-2017, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Would you think it would be roughly equivalent to say that instead of 'owning' he must first have tagged the object with an RFID microdot?

Sounds like a good bit of fluff. How involved is installing this RFID microdot?

If it's easy to do (you can pick up a microdot on your fingertip and stick it to something with a touch, basically being able to tag anything you can touch), then it feels more powerful than Recall to me. It's like having Recall where you "own" everything you've ever been near. In that case, you'd have to adjust the limitation, or on the flip side, treat it like Creation and have the tagged items count against the character's Wealth (as does "ownership" of gear) or a pool of "taggable" points to have some limit on what can be recalled, as with Creation.

You might also consider whether that microdot can randomly fall off. (Perhaps it falls onto another thing, which might be the next instance of the same item on a store shelf, or a different item on the shelf below -- or the shelving itself, which will likely be awkward when you unwittingly summon it.) A less reliable tag ought to be more of a discount.

If it's a relatively difficult process more like having the item in your possession for a reasonable length of time (maybe an hour) so you can take it into your non-mobile lab (mad pseudoscientists always have a lab!) and properly inscribe and install the microdot, then it seems about the same as "ownership". You could have just stolen the item and kept it if ownership were the goal; instead, you tagged it and put it back.

Donny Brook · 02-04-2017, 09:50 AM

Good points.

I guess in my mind I imagine the tagging process being quick and easy enough to assume it that he could tag everything he actually does possess, but a bit complicated for things he does not. So I'd say it would be an undefined "long action" that would give observers a roll to notice him (modified for the situation). I suppose he could try to be hasty or stealthy at a risk the dot would not attach properly.

02-01-2017, 06:55 PM	#1
Donny Brook Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Snoopy's basement	Snatcher, clarifying Recall Snatcher with Recall seems like the perfect match for a power I want to build, but I am concerned about the vagueness of the restriction to "personal possessions ... but not someone else's belongings". What constitutes the boundary of your possessions? In a DF campaign, when is loot yours and not someone else's anymore? If someone mails you a book you ordered, when can you Snatch it? If you buy gold but leave it on deposit without taking delivery, can you Snatch a bit now and then? Is there a better formula than 'personal possession' that would serve better?

02-01-2017, 08:33 PM	#2
Ejidoth Join Date: Jul 2009	Re: Snatcher, clarifying Recall Pick some appropriate amount of time that fits. Maybe an hour or a day. Rule that after you've had object in your possession for <time>, you've 'attuned' to it and can recall it with Snatcher as one of your personal belongings, at least until someone else possesses the object for <time>.

02-02-2017, 08:41 AM	#4
Leynok Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Australia WA	Re: Snatcher, clarifying Recall I would apply a time limit as suggested for stolen items (set this with the GM, and would be used both for when you steal an item and for when the item is stolen from you), but otherwise the item becomes yours when it's previous owner willingly gives it to you (so yes you could snatch it from shipment, as they sent it to you), or when you willingly give up the item to someone else. So in your example where you buy the gold but leave it somewhere, it counts as yours until that time period has passed, so you better have snatched it all back up by then. Loot gained from a dungeon would have to wait the time period before it counts as yours, while rewards granted to you for your deeds are yours instantly.

02-02-2017, 10:13 AM	#5
Crystalline_Entity Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: England	Re: Snatcher, clarifying Recall Personally I'd say you had to touch it, or at least physically be in its presence before you could Snatch it - something you're having shipped to you might legally belong to you, but I'd say you don't have that personal (magical, psionic, etc) connection with it until you actually "have" it with you.

02-03-2017, 08:58 AM	#7
Donny Brook Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Snoopy's basement	Re: Snatcher, clarifying Recall Thank you for these very helpful responses. The genre in my case involves pseudoscience to eplain this ability. Would you think it would be roughly equivalent to say that instead of 'owning' he must first have tagged the object with an RFID microdot? While this would allow for stealing anything he could tag, it would not allow Snatching his possessions that are not tagged.

02-03-2017, 09:44 AM	#8
Culture20 Join Date: Feb 2014	Re: Snatcher, clarifying Recall For a pseudoscience feel, I like the microtransmitter much better, even if it does allow stealing items retroactively. Very much like SG-1 Asgard beaming tech. For a magic version, I'd apply "possession is nine tenths of the law" style of possession. 1 Who's holding it, 2 whose vault/backpack is it in, 3 who has a bond (weapon bond, signature gear) with the object or who has legal documents proving ownership (or some other proof of ownership like witnesses) if it's just laying about, 4 and then who touched it last if no documents/bonds exist. This way, a thief could steal an item, it becomes his possession while he holds it and uses it, carries it on his person, but if he sets it down away from himself and does not hand it to another person, then the item could be summoned only if the summoner had a bond or proof of ownership.

02-04-2017, 09:50 AM	#10
Donny Brook Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Snoopy's basement	Re: Snatcher, clarifying Recall Good points. I guess in my mind I imagine the tagging process being quick and easy enough to assume it that he could tag everything he actually does possess, but a bit complicated for things he does not. So I'd say it would be an undefined "long action" that would give observers a roll to notice him (modified for the situation). I suppose he could try to be hasty or stealthy at a risk the dot would not attach properly.