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Old 12-06-2021, 03:43 PM   #1
oneofmanynameless
 
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Default Zeroed as a Disadvantage

"You'd get a bank account but that requires proof of residence, proof of identity, pay stubs, and other documentation. You'd get a drivers license to prove your identity but that requires two forms of proof of identity and proof of residence. That means an expired license (but you've never had one), a passport (but you've never traveled), or at least a birth certificate or social security card (but you were born off the record in a hotel somewhere.) If those original documents existed they were lost or destroyed when you lost your family all those years ago before you ended up transitioning from street to shelter to street to foster home to street again. There isn't anyone around anymore who knows where you were born or when. You don't have friends, you don't have family, and probably don't have Contacts, Allies (except animals, familiars, spirits, etc), Patrons (except supernatural entities), or Claims to Hospitality (except maybe with the rat people of the sewers). You'd get proof of residence but that requires mail and documentation, which requires a job and official income, which requires vital documents, which requires knowing who you are. It's a circular problem. You don't exist as far as society is concerned. Rediscovering enough documentation to participate in society would require a lot of work, likely by skilled investigators."

This is a Mundane Social disadvantage. It's unfortunately common among homeless people, particularly those who grew up in the foster system, in real life. How much would you price it at?
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Old 12-06-2021, 03:47 PM   #2
ericthered
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Default Re: Zeroed as a Disadvantage

It sounds like a social stigma to me: you are not an official person and can't take any legal actions at all.



My Gut is for [-5].
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Old 12-06-2021, 03:56 PM   #3
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Default Re: Zeroed as a Disadvantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
My Gut is for [-5].
I agree with Social Stigma, but I think -5 is too modest. That's the price for Second-Class Citizen, who has trouble engaging in legal transactions but does have a recognized legal status; or for Valuable Property, who has no rights of their own but has someone else who will act on their behalf. On the other hand, it's definitely not as bad as Monster, because people won't attack you. I'd call it -10, equivalent to Minority Group.
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Old 12-06-2021, 04:00 PM   #4
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Default Re: Zeroed as a Disadvantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
I agree with Social Stigma, but I think -5 is too modest. That's the price for Second-Class Citizen, who has trouble engaging in legal transactions but does have a recognized legal status; or for Valuable Property, who has no rights of their own but has someone else who will act on their behalf. On the other hand, it's definitely not as bad as Monster, because people won't attack you. I'd call it -10, equivalent to Minority Group.
What is the gurps difference between Minority Group and Second-Class Citizen? Based on those qualifiers it sounds like second-class citizen is what most minority groups functionally have...
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Old 12-06-2021, 04:24 PM   #5
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Default Re: Zeroed as a Disadvantage

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Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless View Post
What is the gurps difference between Minority Group and Second-Class Citizen? Based on those qualifiers it sounds like second-class citizen is what most minority groups functionally have...
A Minority Group gets a -2 Reaction from everyone not in their group, while Second-Class Citizen gets a -1. That's about it.
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Old 12-06-2021, 04:27 PM   #6
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Default Re: Zeroed as a Disadvantage

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Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless View Post
What is the gurps difference between Minority Group and Second-Class Citizen? Based on those qualifiers it sounds like second-class citizen is what most minority groups functionally have...
Rections from the majority are -2 rather than -1. Reactions from your own kind may be +2 rather than 0, if you belong to a small minority. You are not simply not a full citizen, but are considered barbarian or inferior.
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Old 12-06-2021, 04:38 PM   #7
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Default Re: Zeroed as a Disadvantage

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Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
A Minority Group gets a -2 Reaction from everyone not in their group, while Second-Class Citizen gets a -1. That's about it.
What about someone who falls into both categories?

Say a Chinese railway builder in 1870s United States? Or a person of color in the South during the height of Jim Crow?

Take the higher of the two?
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Old 12-06-2021, 04:41 PM   #8
ericthered
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Default Re: Zeroed as a Disadvantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
I agree with Social Stigma, but I think -5 is too modest. That's the price for Second-Class Citizen, who has trouble engaging in legal transactions but does have a recognized legal status; or for Valuable Property, who has no rights of their own but has someone else who will act on their behalf. On the other hand, it's definitely not as bad as Monster, because people won't attack you. I'd call it -10, equivalent to Minority Group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Rections from the majority are -2 rather than -1. Reactions from your own kind may be +2 rather than 0, if you belong to a small minority. You are not simply not a full citizen, but are considered barbarian or inferior.

And I think the lack of reaction penalties are what makes the price [-5], because you look normal until you try to do something legal. If you don't look normal... that might be a different disadvantage.
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Old 12-06-2021, 04:49 PM   #9
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Default Re: Zeroed as a Disadvantage

I call this Social Stigma: No Legal Status [-10]. There's no automatic reaction penalty, as with Criminal Record, but bad reactions when your lack of status is discovered. Also, a lot of hassles and de facto illegal activity, such as driving without a license, etc. This should only be available in a TL 7+ game.
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Old 12-06-2021, 04:52 PM   #10
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Default Re: Zeroed as a Disadvantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
It sounds like a social stigma to me: you are not an official person and can't take any legal actions at all.

My Gut is for [-5].
Extrapolating from Legally Dead I would say [-10]; I am assuming half of the [-20] is due to the incorrect assumption that you are effectively a walking corpse.

If you want an example of how off the wall gonzo face palming stupid Legally Dead can get read up on Donald E. Miller, Jr. who was affirmed as legally dead as he sat in front of an Ohio judge very much alive.
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