[MH] Witch Variety

[Edges]

I really like the Ritual Path Magic system presented in GURPS: Monster Hunters.

But I would like to be able to introduce more variety among mages. As it stands, any witch can do just about anything up to a certain power level. And while one may be rolling on a 13 to cast a fireball and another on a 15, everyone's a fire mage. And they'd be rolling on those same two numbers if they decided to go with lightning instead. It's fine for some campaigns (Harry Potter could be modeled like this, I suppose).

I'd like my campaign to be able to feature specialist mages (eg. necromancers and healers) and mages with limitations that give them flavor (eg. a mage who can only make charms if they're origami... equipment modifiers apply).

So I'm thinking of applying a campaign-wide rule that Magery over 3 needs to be aspected. So they can all still throw fireballs but there is such thing as a fire mage. And a necromancer would be rolling on an 11 to make something levitate unless he said it was because he summoned a poltergeist to do it. Then he'd be rolling on a 14. The GM could rule that since the mage was in a church, no poltergeists would come but it is considered a consecrated space for the healer mage. One could still make a generalist by having a high IQ and low magery.

I'm toying with the idea of requiring the Adept advantage to be aspected as well. Would that break anything? (I realize that these ideas make being a mage a little cheaper. But my players are looking for a lower point game anyway.)

Does anyone have any further ideas? Comments? And I'm still not sure how to treat mages like the origami guy.

[vierasmarius]

I think by simply encouraging players to take advantage of the Aspected discount, and applying it to most NPC spell-casting, you could achieve the same effect. You could add a UB for high-level Un-aspected Magery or Adept too. Either way, there may still be some generalist mages, but they'll seem special instead of mundane.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Edges

So I'm thinking of applying a campaign-wide rule that Magery over 3 needs to be aspected. So they can all still throw fireballs but there is such thing as a fire mage. And a necromancer would be rolling on an 11 to make something levitate unless he said it was because he summoned a poltergeist to do it. Then he'd be rolling on a 14.

I don't see how you're getting your numbers. Magery doesn't add to skill in RPM, so why would his skill levels switch between 11 and 14?

[carllarson]

Wouldn't specialization among witches be better, and easier, done in the selection of paths?

In the above example, a kinetomancer could use Control Matter for levitation, where necromancer would use Control Spirit to command a local spirit to work.

[mlangsdorf]

I'm allowing RPM casters in my campaign to take talents that apply to path skills, and that effectively raise their Thaumatology and/or Magery level for skills in that talent only.

For instant: Geomancer (5 pts/level) covers Path of Crossroads, Navigation, Hiking, Running, and Acrobatics. An IQ 16 Witch with Geomancer 4, Magery 5, and Thaumatology-16 could learn most path skills up to a 16 but could learn Path of Crossroads-21. So while this Witch can be good with any spell, he's a real master of Crossroads in a way that a standard witch can't be.

I have to admit, allowing Aspects on Ritual Adept is also an interesting idea. A sage who can cast 1-2 types of spells as quickly as a Witch would be a neat character concept. I don't know how well it would distinguishes Witches from each other, though. If you aren't an Adept, you really try to avoid casting spells outside of a Consecrated Space. Making most Witches into non-Adepts for a lot of magic makes them look a lot more like Sages, at least magic ability wise.

[Edges]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

I don't see how you're getting your numbers. Magery doesn't add to skill in RPM, so why would his skill levels switch between 11 and 14?

Oops. My bad.

I was just throwing numbers out there without really thinking about them. I was thinking of the max skill limitations.

[Edges]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

I think by simply encouraging players to take advantage of the Aspected discount, and applying it to most NPC spell-casting, you could achieve the same effect. You could add a UB for high-level Un-aspected Magery or Adept too. Either way, there may still be some generalist mages, but they'll seem special instead of mundane.

I think you may be right.

Originally Posted by carllarson

Wouldn't specialization among witches be better, and easier, done in the selection of paths?

In the above example, a kinetomancer could use Control Matter for levitation, where necromancer would use Control Spirit to command a local spirit to work.

This wouldn't work for what I'm going for. Maybe my examples weren't clear enough.

I'd like there to be, say, druids in the campaign. A druid could have the same level in all the paths as a non-druid but with a different flavor. While one mage could cast a fireball, the druid would instead call down lightning using the same path skills. The druid could cast a fireball, just not as well. I need to find some mechanic that represents the fact that it means something to be a druid, magically speaking. The paths are too general to represent this.

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

I'm allowing RPM casters in my campaign to take talents that apply to path skills, and that effectively raise their Thaumatology and/or Magery level for skills in that talent only.

For instant: Geomancer (5 pts/level) covers Path of Crossroads, Navigation, Hiking, Running, and Acrobatics. An IQ 16 Witch with Geomancer 4, Magery 5, and Thaumatology-16 could learn most path skills up to a 16 but could learn Path of Crossroads-21. So while this Witch can be good with any spell, he's a real master of Crossroads in a way that a standard witch can't be.

This is a good idea. But again, it's not quite the ticket. It's not the paths that need to be raised or lowered. I'm looking for something more specific. What I'm thinking of is kind of like Wildcard skills. Using Blade!, you get a bonus to just about every skill (eg. acrobatics) as long as you can explain how it fits into being awesome with blades. But Blade! doesn't help you do a back flip off a diving board if you just want to go for a swim.

I'd like there to be some advantage that says the Geomancer gets a bonus to all the paths as long as they can explain how that spell is a Geomancy thing. So they'd get bonus to Path of Body to make their skin as hard as rock but not to heal someone. They'd get bonuses to Path of Spirit to summon an earth spirit to answer questions about how the caves are shaped or who excavated the hill, but they wouldn't get the bonus to summon the spirit of a dead relative.

What is that advantage I'm looking for?

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

I have to admit, allowing Aspects on Ritual Adept is also an interesting idea. A sage who can cast 1-2 types of spells as quickly as a Witch would be a neat character concept. I don't know how well it would distinguishes Witches from each other, though. If you aren't an Adept, you really try to avoid casting spells outside of a Consecrated Space. Making most Witches into non-Adepts for a lot of magic makes them look a lot more like Sages, at least magic ability wise.

The idea is that if you're a druid, you can cast druid type spells like a witch and non-druid type spells like a sage. It seems to differentiate mages because two mages can have the exact same magery level and the same path skill list but one is obviously a druid and the other is obviously not just because they each have a different word in the blank below:

Ritual Adept (Aspected:______ -x%)

It does make witches more like sages, and I'm fine with that. But being able to cast quick, powerful spells outside of consecrated space at all is what makes a witch a witch even if her options are a little fewer under my system.

[Mathulhu]

How about Higher Purpose (Cast like a _____) [5]?

You'd get a +1/level when ever you cast a spell in a suitable manner.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Mathulhu

How about Higher Purpose (Cast like a _____) [5]?

You'd get a +1/level when ever you cast a spell in a suitable manner.

I like this idea. As long as it's sufficiently limited, you could allow it in levels. So Higher Purpose 3 (Cast like a druid) [15] would give you +3 on all Path rolls to cast "druidic" spells. For balance, "druidic" would have to be narrowly defined, however, and if there's any doubt about a spell, it doesn't get the bonus.

[Adelus]

What about Specializations of Path Skills?

One idea I was kicking for organizing groups into separate Traditions a la Magical Styles was to have specializations on Path skils and then assorted Magic Perks fit to a tradition, along with some worked Techniques to represent some common rituals practiced by that Tradition. Some limitations on Magery could also represent the need for certain items like fetishes/totems or mundane skill use like singing/dancing. I.E. you could have Magery (Druidic) with Paths specialized (Path of Body (Druidic)). Not sure if you might want to drop skill difficulty down a peg across the board or not... or maybe offer normal Path skills and then one drop in difficulty for specializations to represent belonging to an ordered tradition and taking advantage of its established doctrines as helping to focus but also constrain your spellcasting.

Some groups might have perks that grant bonuses to certain path skills only when casting with that specialization, to represent, say, being proficient with casting Path of Body spells specifically when working with plants. Some required self-imposed quirks acting opposite can help constrict spellcasting: that same Tradition with proficiency in affecting plants might have a required quirk that makes it difficult to affect fully sapient beings.

Edit: Additionally, you could use some existing perks like the exemptions for Astrological Modifiers and the like to further separate different spellcasting orders and traditions. Druids might be able to use material components like particularly aspected plants for bonuses.