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Old 09-03-2019, 11:51 AM   #31
David Johansen
 
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Default Re: GURPS Prime Directive

If it was a Star Trek the Next Generation game, I'd say the phasers were over powered. Of course, TNG is set after 60 years of peace with an extremely ideological government controlling the Federation. "Do we really need phasers that can outright disintegrate people?"

Last edited by David Johansen; 09-03-2019 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 09-03-2019, 12:26 PM   #32
Jean_Sexton
 
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Default Re: GURPS Prime Directive

Quote:
Originally Posted by thalcos View Post
I just want to take a moment to thank Jean for being on the forums and listening to everyone's feedback.
Thanks for the welcome. I will try to drop by regularly.

There is also a group on Facebook that I monitor that is focused on Prime Directive: https://www.facebook.com/groups/SFUPRIMEDIRECTIVE/
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Old 09-03-2019, 12:59 PM   #33
Mark Skarr
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Default Re: GURPS Prime Directive

As for the TL discussion, I really think licensed products should use their own TL format. It would save a lot of confusion. My Supers Trek games (based on Prime Directive with Super Heroes) basically has STE (Early), STM (Mid), STL (Late), all which may or may not have ^ which indicates "Supers tech."

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Originally Posted by Jean_Sexton View Post
Mark, if you tell me what is incorrect on pagination, I'll fix it. I'm slightly dyslexic especially with numbers, so it would be easy for me to make mistakes there.
It was literally, the first thing I went to look up:
ToC: Using SFB or FC for Space Combat is listed on page 291. It is actually on page 299.
Listed within the "Weapons Officer" paragraph on the second column, on page 299, states "used as per the chart on p. 290." The chart is on page 300.
Additionally, the pages of the PDF are one higher than the page number listed on the page.

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Originally Posted by Jean_Sexton View Post
Let's see: Phasers can disintegrate people and things: The number of charges consumed each time a phaser is fired is equal to the setting number; e.g., Stun-1 or Kill-1 consume 1 charge, Stun-3 or Kill-3 consume 3 charges, etc. Exception: Disint consumes two charges times the setting number per shot (Disint-3 uses six charges).
Okay . . . that's not germane to my observation, but, fair enough.

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Originally Posted by Jean_Sexton View Post
Your coffee would be boiling: Heating Inanimate Objects: Phasers can be used to heat inanimate objects. This is done on the Stun-1 setting. (Repeating phasers may not be used for this purpose.) A one-foot-diameter rock would have its surface heated to about 500° Fahrenheit. The heat will last about 30 minutes, less if the wind is blowing.
Mrnh?! A Stun-1 setting has the target make a HT check at -1 to resist an incapacitation . . . but the book doesn't say which kind . . . another errata. Assuming it causes Unconsciousness for the rest of this . . . oh, wait, it does say they fall unconscious two paragraphs later. Still errata.

(I also see this information in the 2nd column on that page. Still doesn't make any sense compared to the damage we see.)

Shooting a human/analog with a phaser on Stun-1 would have the same effect as shooting the rock. . . raising their temperature to lethal levels. That's not a HT -1 save for Unconsciousness, that's like . . . 10d burning? Someone maths-check me on that (I just did a guestimate). To heat a homogeneous object is going to take a lot of energy. Energy that will easily boil us "bags of mostly water." That's not a stun setting that's a "flame-broil" setting. (Similar to our "set phasers to humiliate" order.)

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Originally Posted by Jean_Sexton View Post
Phasers can blow up: The damage is resolved as concussion damage equivalent to the number of charges remaining in the weapon times 1d.
Good to know.

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Originally Posted by Jean_Sexton View Post
I did try to make this mirror what was seen on TOS and was consistent with the SFU.
On numerous occasions in TOS, phasers are seen making their targets glow softly, then cease to exist.

Disnt-3 does 8d (3) burn damage.

While that's mediocre damage, especially against armor, it's not going to disintegrate very much. That's 28 points of average damage, and would disintegrate something with 2 HP, but not 3. Max damage--48--would let you disintegrate something with 4 HP.

Disintegration requires you take something to -10 x HP. Not - HP. The armor divisor isn't going to help you disintegrate much. To disintegrate a 10 HP human, you'll need to do 110 points of injury. Assuming no armor, that's the average damage from a 32d attack (112). Ethnic Klingons have a ST+1, so they would require 121 points of injury, or a 35d attack (122.5). So . . . Disnt-1 should probably start around 30d (6dx5) to 40d (8dx5). The average damage from 40d (140) would disintegrate a character with 12 HP.

Kill-2 through Kill-4 do about as much damage as pistols/light SMGs. Kill-5 is a light AR with AP rounds. Personally, I've had gas stronger than Kill-1, and definitely stronger than Stun-3.

Kill-3 and Kill-4 are inferior to the .44 auto-pistol you have on the next page . . . also, errata for that page (pg 282), 9mm generally do pi damage not pi+ damage, the Auto Pistol, 9mm is listed as 2d+2 pi+ should, likely be 2d+2 pi. The 9mm SMG lower is correct.

[eta]
The phasers for my Supers Trek game do:

Light Stun, 1d (5) bu + Side Effect (Unconsciousness) (Phaser I)
Improved Stun, 2d (5) bu + Side Effect (Unconsciousness; Heart Attack -5) (Phaser II)
Heavy Stun, 3d (10) bu + Side Effect (Unconsciousness; Heart Attack -5) (Phaser Rifle)

Disrupt, 5d (10) bu (Phaser I)
Kill, 10d (10) bu (Phaser II)
Heavy Kill, 20d (10) bu (Phaser Rifle)

Disintegrate 1, 40d (∞) bu (Phaser I)
Disintegrate 2, 80d (∞) bu (Phaser II)
Disintegrate 3, 120d (∞) bu (Phaser Rifle)
[/eta]

Last edited by Mark Skarr; 09-03-2019 at 01:20 PM. Reason: added my phasers
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Old 09-03-2019, 01:22 PM   #34
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: GURPS Prime Directive

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Originally Posted by Mark Skarr View Post

Shooting a human/analog with a phaser on Stun-1 would have the same effect as shooting the rock. . . raising their temperature to lethal levels. That's not a HT -1 save for Unconsciousness, that's like . . . 10d burning? Someone maths-check me on that (I just did a guestimate). To heat a homogeneous object is going to take a lot of energy. .
For an average human the first Survival Roll would occur after roughly 6D of Burning (21 pts). IT:Homogenous does not change that directly though a Homogenous object would have many more HP than living being of the same mass. See B. 558. A 216 lb rock would have 48 HP though it might develop cracks if reduced to 0 HP. It might even soften a little after 2/3rds that which would be 32 pts of damage.
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Old 09-03-2019, 01:51 PM   #35
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Default Re: GURPS Prime Directive

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Yeah, but realistically, trying to make the Lensman-tech progression play nice with the traditional GURPS version isn't within reason. The underlying assumptions are just too different.
Given the robustness of the GURPS 4e Tech Level system I disagree. Now the GURPS 3e TL system at the time GURPS Lensman came just certainly wasn't up to the task and even when Divergent Technology came along later it still had problems.

GURPS Fantasy further expanded the 4e Tech system with Equivalent TL which added another tool to the GM's tool box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Skarr View Post
As for the TL discussion, I really think licensed products should use their own TL format. It would save a lot of confusion. My Supers Trek games (based on Prime Directive with Super Heroes) basically has STE (Early), STM (Mid), STL (Late), all which may or may not have ^ which indicates "Supers tech."
That IMHO is a really really bad idea as it runs contrary to the whole "Universal" part of GURPS. Sure within a setting it makes perfect sense but again GURPS 3e Super was internally logical but the moment you tried to cross it over with something else it became one huge FUBAR.
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Old 09-03-2019, 01:54 PM   #36
Jean_Sexton
 
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Default Re: GURPS Prime Directive

In some ways, phasers in TOS are magic. They know to disintegrate the human, but not the bulkhead behind him. To make them do what the TV show had is going to take a lot of hand-wavium. Feel free to house rule phasers.

You will note that I already have changed the TOC wrong page number.

The Weapons officer thing. Drat. I know what happened. Somewhere when I numbered the pages before assembly, I got off by 10 pages. I obviously didn't catch that after fixing the main problem. I am sorry. I have also caught the reference to precise distance and fixed it. I'll be going through the book this afternoon to find other references and fix them. I am so sorry and so embarrassed.

The one page off is due to us including the cover. That I cannot help. I really cannot create six books (3 print and 3 PDF) when the answer is to add one to the whole book or to add the leading pages in v. 2.
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Old 09-03-2019, 02:32 PM   #37
DouglasCole
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Default Re: GURPS Prime Directive

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Originally Posted by Jean_Sexton View Post

The one page off is due to us including the cover. That I cannot help. I really cannot create six books (3 print and 3 PDF) when the answer is to add one to the whole book or to add the leading pages in v. 2.
Jean,

Doug here from Gaming Ballistic. I sent you a PM (and am about to send another), and I think I might be able to help if you're interested.
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Old 09-03-2019, 02:32 PM   #38
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Default Re: GURPS Prime Directive

On being off by one page number, ask SJGames how they make their page numbering work. For those .pdfs that come from a book intended for print, they list the covers as page i and ii, the page numbers then line up with the ToC and Index.

Cross posted, Douglas Cole should have what you need.
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Old 09-03-2019, 03:05 PM   #39
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Default Re: GURPS Prime Directive

I will say that I have enjoyed my group's slightly-housed PD campaign very much over the years and leave other opinions in my posting history in the face of a marketing push. My though on the specific mechanical issues can be found easily in other threads. At the moment, I wish this project luck.
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Old 09-03-2019, 05:29 PM   #40
David Johansen
 
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Default Re: GURPS Prime Directive

I'll probably get it for the GURPS Space Ships stats.

I had a Star Fleet Academy campaign this spring. We never really got any ship to ship combat. They had a lot of mishaps. Much like my GURPS Hogwarts game, there's no way the school would be left operating by the time the PCs were done :D
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