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Old 06-26-2015, 03:10 PM   #1
Lameth
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Path/Book Magic question

Hello All

I am developing a new magic on my horror world, and with the major help of two posters here [many thanks!] its being formed. Its basically Book Ritual Magic, but I have a question.

an example: One of the PCs was trained to be a cinematic Occultist. Basically trained to know about the supernatural and the many ways of magic throughout the world and throughout time, true and not. She was instructed to use some of these ways, and also how to find out how to use a way she does not know yet. So far the ways she was trained in was Norse Runes, Egyptian Sorcery, European/Middle Ages Sorcery, Enochian Magic, and Roman/Greek high magic rituals.

My question is due to the fact that she was trained with rituals by rote, and not allowed to make up rituals this is Ritual Book Magic, I got that. But is this the way it would be set up?

Ritual Magic [Egyptian Sorcery]. Path [Rituals of Isis]. Then techniques under that as the rituals themselves
Ritual Magic [Enochian Magic]. Path [Wards of protection]. Then techniques under that as the rituals themselves
Ritual Magic [Roman Magic]. Path [Way of Juno]. Then techniques under that as the rituals themselves

Or

Ritual Magic [only one general core skill].
Path Egyptian Sorcery, general of all Egyptian magics.
Then techniques under each Path of the rituals themselves
Path Enochian Magic, general of all Enochian magics.
Then techniques under each Path of the rituals themselves
Path Roman Magic, general of all Roman magics.
Then techniques under each Path of the rituals themselves
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Old 06-26-2015, 03:20 PM   #2
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Default Re: Path/Book Magic question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lameth View Post
Hello All

I am developing a new magic on my horror world, and with the major help of two posters here [many thanks!] its being formed. Its basically Book Ritual Magic, but I have a question.

an example: One of the PCs was trained to be a cinematic Occultist. Basically trained to know about the supernatural and the many ways of magic throughout the world and throughout time, true and not. She was instructed to use some of these ways, and also how to find out how to use a way she does not know yet. So far the ways she was trained in was Norse Runes, Egyptian Sorcery, European/Middle Ages Sorcery, Enochian Magic, and Roman/Greek high magic rituals.

My question is due to the fact that she was trained with rituals by rote, and not allowed to make up rituals this is Ritual Book Magic, I got that. But is this the way it would be set up?

Ritual Magic [Egyptian Sorcery]. Path [Rituals of Isis]. Then techniques under that as the rituals themselves
Ritual Magic [Enochian Magic]. Path [Wards of protection]. Then techniques under that as the rituals themselves
Ritual Magic [Roman Magic]. Path [Way of Juno]. Then techniques under that as the rituals themselves

Or

Ritual Magic [only one general core skill].
Path Egyptian Sorcery, general of all Egyptian magics.
Then techniques under each Path of the rituals themselves
Path Enochian Magic, general of all Enochian magics.
Then techniques under each Path of the rituals themselves
Path Roman Magic, general of all Roman magics.
Then techniques under each Path of the rituals themselves
If she's created her own system, assembling it out of rituals from those various traditions, I wouldn't do either of them. What she has is not a Path (taught in a traditional form) but a Book (synthesized personally). I would give her

Ritual Magic (only one general core skill; note that Ritual Magic is always only one general core skill)
Book of the Occultist (one only Book skill; make up a suitable name)
Techniques that belong to the book

Or, if you want her to be following the teachings of each ritual system as a body, without trying to integrate the different systems, then you would call each of them a Path, I think.
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Old 06-26-2015, 03:23 PM   #3
Mr_Sandman
 
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Default Re: Path/Book Magic question

The default set up is Ritual Magic (specific tradition) is the prerequisite skill for all paths or books within that tradition. Then each path or book is a skill, and each ritual is a technique.

So this is right: "Ritual Magic [Egyptian Sorcery] enables Path(or Book) [Rituals of Isis]. Then techniques under that as the rituals themselves

However, it would be a bit harsh to only allow one path or book per tradition, and make the character pay for so many different versions of Ritual Magic.

Each tradition (and version of Ritual Magic) should have access to more than one Path or Book, and a reasonable collection of rituals.
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Old 06-26-2015, 03:37 PM   #4
Lameth
 
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Default Re: Path/Book Magic question

Where I agree, at this times she does have paths that only have one or two rituals in them.

My mistake comes from when I started designing the rituals of the workd, they are kind of scattered. So she has rituals that cover Egyptian sorcery, mideaval occult rituals, alchemical rituals, enochian rituals, Vedic sorcery, Latin or ancient tongue almost instant incantations (very Dresden), a few Norse runes, etc.

So now I don't how to categorize them all. I feel screwed. I first went very Buffy/Supernatural in my approach to magic all over the world, now I don't knowhow to fix it and make it in cleaner categories and ritual magic fields.

Last edited by Lameth; 06-26-2015 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 06-26-2015, 05:06 PM   #5
Mr_Sandman
 
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Default Re: Path/Book Magic question

In that case, whswhs' approach seems to me to be the best fix. Have just one Ritual Magic skill. Then you have a few options:
  1. Put all the rituals into one book.
  2. Have just a few books, combining traditions that are most similar into the same book.
  3. Have each tradition as a single path or book
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Old 06-26-2015, 07:11 PM   #6
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Default Re: Path/Book Magic question

I would say use one Ritual Magic skill ('Western Occultism', maybe?), but have each of [Rituals of Isis], [Wards of Protection], and [Way of Juno] be Books. It helps that they all have good 'magic book' titles.
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Old 06-26-2015, 07:36 PM   #7
DangerousThing
 
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Default Re: Path/Book Magic question

Have you started the game? If not, you have more freedom in dealing with this. If the game is already going on, then think about thing, and then talk to all your magic practitioners together.

Perhaps you could use RPM or Realm magic and she would use a set of premade spells without having the ability to improvise until she buys that limitation off. The premade spells might be slightly more efficient than improvised spells if they are old and have been used by a magic using civilization for a long time.

In my campaigns, the advantage of using old spells is exactly that: they may be more efficient than improvised spells. I figure it takes either a magical genius or normal use for at least a century to come up with these optimizations.

Also, magic being occult (meaning secret), many mages wrote down their spells with boobytraps or in such a way that nobody else could use them without knowing the trick to make them useful.
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Old 06-26-2015, 10:42 PM   #8
Lameth
 
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Default Re: Path/Book Magic question

Yes the game has started, I'm just revamping the magic system (behind the curtain stuff) and keeping the role playing stuff the same.

Last edited by Lameth; 06-27-2015 at 12:46 AM.
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Old 06-27-2015, 01:22 AM   #9
Refplace
 
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Default Re: Path/Book Magic question

There is a lot of derivation there.
I would go with Ritual Magic (Western Traditions) and then several books.
Finding new traditions or different books within the same tradion would be a nice reward or goal.
I would probably add in a Ritual Magic (Eastern traditions) and make it Paths rather then Books for a different flavor.
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Old 06-27-2015, 02:42 PM   #10
Lameth
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Path/Book Magic question

I just with there was online or this website examples of Npcs or pcs that where written up with path AND book. I know the thaumaturgy book explains it somewhat but I'm lost in the big differences and the flow of the write up.

If you have a pic that found a lost library of occult lore, along with a real spell book, is that path or book? And why? And would it be one path, book of x? And what about if he finds a new spell on his own and wants to add it to his path? Etc.

And a pc that was raised with a true and cinematic witchcraft household ? Path or book ? And why?

What's the good and bad of path or book? Etc. and what does it look liks for someone to have both book and path? And what's the rules for it?

Last edited by Lameth; 06-27-2015 at 03:08 PM.
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