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Old 03-26-2020, 06:41 AM   #31
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Resolving problem with pentagrams and wish contest of wills

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Yes. That's why the standard approach mentioned is to summon a demon inside a pentagram. Of course, one might also assume a pentagram blocks a wizard from summoning across it, unless the wizard himself is inside the pentagram too. If it also blocked the contest of wills, and especially if the contest of will involved having to be adjacent to the demon, that would help a bit, but still a 4d attack is vastly more survivable (especially with the Legacy dying rules) than the original result of being immediately killed.
Good idea to rule that pentagrams interfere with the contest of wills -- that's a simpler way to say it.

Precluding summoning into a pentagram, though, would make it not really function like pentagrams are supposed to, so it should be renamed if that's the case.
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Old 03-26-2020, 09:32 AM   #32
warhorse11h
 
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Default Re: Resolving problem with pentagrams and wish contest of wills

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Good idea to rule that pentagrams interfere with the contest of wills -- that's a simpler way to say it.

Precluding summoning into a pentagram, though, would make it not really function like pentagrams are supposed to, so it should be renamed if that's the case.
The rules indicate that the demon can be summoned to the interior of the pentagram or the wizard can conduct the summoning from the interior of the pentagram. The variable for this is the reason for summoning the demon. If it is desired for the demon to fight or search, then it has to be outside of the pentagram. For questions or granting wishes, it makes more sense to have it inside the pentagram. Either way, Skarg's suggestion seems to work better than other suggestions, barring a complete revision of the whole procedure.

Making the wizard move to the same side of the pentagram as the demon to conduct the contest of wills and allows the attack if the contest is lost by the wizard and may also allow the wizard to escape if he can either get out of or into the pentagram before the demon can kill him.

Seems like a workable solution to me.
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Old 03-26-2020, 09:58 AM   #33
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Default Re: Resolving problem with pentagrams and wish contest of wills

Wish Inc. Your local wizard's guild has a production line for wishes. A summoning chamber with a permanent pentagram and a wizard wearing +5 fine silver plate and a permanent diamondflesh ring and an army of apprentices for ST. producing multiple wishes per day and bruising the knuckles of many a demon.
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Old 03-26-2020, 10:27 AM   #34
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Default Re: Resolving problem with pentagrams and wish contest of wills

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Wish Inc. Your local wizard's guild has a production line for wishes. A summoning chamber with a permanent pentagram and a wizard wearing +5 fine silver plate and a permanent diamondflesh ring and an army of apprentices for ST. producing multiple wishes per day and bruising the knuckles of many a demon.
Another reason why I prefer the 'Scanners' result. No amount of physical protection will prevent a demon from burning out the wizard's mind.
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Old 03-26-2020, 10:45 AM   #35
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Default Re: Resolving problem with pentagrams and wish contest of wills

I dropped the Wish Generating Goblin Village because Evil Stevie didn't want to see it. Should I finish that and show you every silver of the $10k production cost for a greater wish?
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Old 03-26-2020, 02:21 PM   #36
warhorse11h
 
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Default Re: Resolving problem with pentagrams and wish contest of wills

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No. Teleporting is the standard way demons move. So there would be no reason for the rules to mention wizards using pentagrams when summoning demons if they were near-zero obstacle to them. Therefore, clearly pentagrams block teleportation across them.
Next question from the peanut gallery. Can a demon or lesser demon grant himself a wish? If so, could he then use said wish to do triple damage on his strike against the wizard who had the temerity to summon him?

If so that would seem to elevate the chances of the wizard not surviving the attempt and making it less likely to try.
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Old 03-26-2020, 03:59 PM   #37
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Default Re: Resolving problem with pentagrams and wish contest of wills

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Next question from the peanut gallery. Can a demon or lesser demon grant himself a wish? If so, could he then use said wish to do triple damage on his strike against the wizard who had the temerity to summon him?
I say no, but then again I've never cared for the default genie-esq presentation of demons in TFT. My demons prefer a more hands-on approach to granting wishes... evil doesn't spread itself, you know.

Reminds me of this older thread...
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=160641
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Old 03-26-2020, 05:23 PM   #38
warhorse11h
 
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Default Re: Resolving problem with pentagrams and wish contest of wills

I have to admit, while I found this topic interesting, I have never had it come up in a game. In fact, I don't think anyone ever got a wish in any game I was involved in. While there were a lot of magic items back in the day, I was a little too free with them, they were all found in dungeons, etc. as artifacts or treasure. None of the people I played with ever expressed an interest in opening a magic shop or creating magic items. We were always more interested in murder, mayhem and thievery. I suspect that in any future game wishes will be even more rare than a +2 broadsword or a scroll of lightning.
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Old 03-26-2020, 05:25 PM   #39
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Default Re: Resolving problem with pentagrams and wish contest of wills

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Originally Posted by warhorse11h View Post
Wish Inc. Your local wizard's guild has a production line for wishes. A summoning chamber with a permanent pentagram and a wizard wearing +5 fine silver plate and a permanent diamondflesh ring and an army of apprentices for ST. producing multiple wishes per day and bruising the knuckles of many a demon.
Yes, that and many other setups can be used to make the Legacy RAW version effectively risk-free.

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Another reason why I prefer the 'Scanners' result. No amount of physical protection will prevent a demon from burning out the wizard's mind.
Exactly. Although I also prefer the creative unpredictable variants we thought of before, because they make the dangers unknown and less predictable.


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I dropped the Wish Generating Goblin Village because Evil Stevie didn't want to see it. Should I finish that and show you every silver of the $10k production cost for a greater wish?
The pillar cave village seems more like a gamey silly rule-based joke concept to me, than something I'd want as a real thing in my game worlds. Seems to me an offended demon would teleport out, steal a petard and come back and cause a well-deserved cave-in wiping out the place.

But given it is possible to overpower a demon, an observation about how much theoretical money could be made on industrial wishes might be interesting. Not to mention how now I'm sure you would expect all your "typical wizards" to end up st ST 14 DX 14 IQ 20 after only 200 XP as a goblin, or 700 XP as a human.



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Next question from the peanut gallery. Can a demon or lesser demon grant himself a wish? If so, could he then use said wish to do triple damage on his strike against the wizard who had the temerity to summon him?

If so that would seem to elevate the chances of the wizard not surviving the attempt and making it less likely to try.
Yeah, if they could, the RAW lesser wish triple damage attack could be harder to survive.
Though if the RAW "instantly heal all a living character’s wounds, diseases, etc., bringing him back to full ST and health." is allowed, combined with the new Legacy RAW death rules, it makes surviving any amount of damage "super-easy, barely an inconvenience!" ... which to my mind is crazy for a game supposedly involving serious risk of consequences in combat, but whatever.
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Old 03-26-2020, 05:26 PM   #40
warhorse11h
 
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Default Re: Resolving problem with pentagrams and wish contest of wills

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I dropped the Wish Generating Goblin Village because Evil Stevie didn't want to see it. Should I finish that and show you every silver of the $10k production cost for a greater wish?
I already know I should say no to this, but, by all means, go ahead.
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