[IW] Consider Flagstaff

[thrash]

There is much to be said for Flagstaff, Arizona, as the setting for an Infinite Worlds campaign, particularly a non-Infinity/Centrum version that uses something other than conveyors to get around:

• Flagstaff is located on the Colorado Plateau, about 100 km (60 mi) south of the Grand Canyon and roughly midway between the Great Desert (original site of the Banestorm) on Yrth-1 and the Hellstorm on Merlin-1. As such, the region could be more "porous" than most, with multiple nexus portals, or subject to frequent small "baneshowers."
• Flagstaff sits at the foot of the San Francisco Peaks. These are the remnant of a stratovolcano that either blew its top (a la Mount St. Helens) or lost it to slumping 200,000 years ago. In our timeline, the main peak is dormant, but other parts of the surrounding volcanic field have erupted as recently as c. 1100 AD. In another timeline, a fully intact and active Mount San Francisco, 5,000 m (16,000 feet) tall, could provide the location and power source for a "lonely mountain" dungeon.
• One reason to build a dungeon there is proximity to Meteor Crater, formed 50,000 years ago by the impact of a nickel-iron meteorite massing 30 tons. In timelines where the impact took place, there are likely a dozen fragments greater than 100 kg (220 lb) and innumerable smaller ones to be found. These could provide incentive for a meteoritic iron based magical research and production industry -- at least for a while.
• The area supported a pre-contact pueblo and cliff-dwelling community, based on the rich volcanic soils. This suggests there could reasonably be significant low-tech agriculture on timelines with suitable climates, further justifying a large dungeon.
• Flagstaff is home to Lowell Observatory, founded by Percival Lowell in 1894 to look for signs of life on Mars. In a steampunk timeline, this might be enough to draw the attention of the invaders when Mars Attacks. Other space-related facilities in the vicinity are the US Naval Observatory and the USGS Astrogeology Science Center, as well as Northern Arizona University -- plenty of opportunity for Things Man Was Not Meant to Know, or just resources (libraries, labs, etc.) for survival-based scenarios.
• Flagstaff was a stop on Route 66, with all the weirdness that implies. This also places it on the I-776 dimensional highway.
• More weirdness is available in nearby Sedona, Arizona, a major destination for new-age tourists who come for the "spiritual vortices."
• Just west of Flagstaff on Route 66/I-40 is Navajo Army Depot, a munitions storage site. On Lucifer-3, there would still be 1970's vintage equipment and ammunition stored there, but access for looting the rest of the timeline would be restricted by the condition of the highway system (both I-17 to Phoenix and I-40 to California were still incomplete at the time). GMs could allow non-government sponsored dimensional travellers to "go shopping" for military-grade hardware (perhaps for a dungeon fantasy modern foray) while still having some control, based on what they find. Watch out for sunburn...
• Somewhat farther afield, the original prototype arcology is located about 125 km (80 mi) south of Flagstaff, off I-17. In a more optimistic (or dystopian) timeline, a fully formed Arcosanti could be a major destination.

One possible structure would be a Sliders-style episodic campaign, where the party gains access to a magical or technological Seek Gate/Banestorm device to guide them from one (temporary) portal to the next.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by thrash

T[*]Somewhat farther afield, the original prototype arcology is located about 125 km (80 mi) south of Flagstaff, off I-17. In a more optimistic (or dystopian) timeline, a fully formed Arcosanti could be a major destination.[/LIST]Oxt.

The thing that has always struck me about the arcology concept is that they're prisons designed to protect nature from mankind. So in a "full dystopian real civilization has collapsed" world literlaly militant tree-huggers have achieved enough power to try and force all humans to live in arcologies. Of course, as the concept is adapted to mass production they aren't even nice prisons any more.

So you can have cyberpunk dystopian cities fenced in with barbed wire even if there isn't that much cyber and a "Resistance" out in the boonies fighting "Greenies" whose uniforms are probably a brighter color than olive drab..

[thrash]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

The thing that has always struck me about the arcology concept is that they're prisons designed to protect nature from mankind.

That may be where the concept has drifted, but it wasn't the original impetus. As best I can tell, the idea was to scale up the positive features (compactness, walkability) of urban forms like Italian hill towns, while combating urban sprawl and doing away with the 10-15% of urban land dedicated to streets and highways. It has as much to do with urban quality of life as it does with conserving resources or protecting nature.

Not bad goals, if one could actually get it to work. That's what I meant by optimistic (it works as advertised) vs. dystopian (it gets tried anyway, but it doesn't work).

[fchase8]

"Consider Flagstaff" sounds like the town business council trying to sell the town to potential IW investors...

While there is interesting stuff there in the last century-plus, and in pre-history, there isn't a lot in the vast gulf in between.

Originally Posted by thrash

That may be where the concept has drifted, but it wasn't the original impetus. As best I can tell, the idea was to scale up the positive features (compactness, walkability) of urban forms like Italian hill towns, while combating urban sprawl and doing away with the 10-15% of urban land dedicated to streets and highways. It has as much to do with urban quality of life as it does with conserving resources or protecting nature.

Not bad goals, if one could actually get it to work. That's what I meant by optimistic (it works as advertised) vs. dystopian (it gets tried anyway, but it doesn't work).

I think originally in sci-fi, the arcology was as much about overpopulation, like in Asimov's work.

There's also the 'control the people' aspect seen going back to 1984.

And in cyberpunk dystopia, the arcologies don't work right, such as with William Gibson.

More modern arcology sci-fi ideas, at least the dystopian kind, seem to be about protecting man from nature, rather than the other way around. Arcologies protect against hurricanes, rising seas, etc.

And there's always been a 'protecting us vs. them' aspect, protecting those inside the arcology from those on the outside, wanting to get in, particularly in post-apocalyptic stories.

More optimistic sci-fi, such as GURPS Transhuman Space, does see arcologies protecting the environment, but also relies heavily on virtual connections, virtual reality, 'jacking into the web', etc.

Of course, these days arcologies main selling point is protecting against outside diseases. One could think of 'bubbles' like the NBA's as a proto-arcology, at least in some ways.

[cptbutton]

Originally Posted by fchase8

And there's always been a 'protecting us vs. them' aspect, protecting those inside the arcology from those on the outside, wanting to get in, particularly in post-apocalyptic stories.

[...]

Of course, these days arcologies main selling point is protecting against outside diseases. One could think of 'bubbles' like the NBA's as a proto-arcology, at least in some ways.

I've always thought that arcologies had a lot of the gated community concept to them, keeping out the bad people, made easier because since people live and work there*, they don't have to go through four security checks a day (in and out at the community and in and out at work.) This also ties into the commonplace SF concept in the 1960s-1980s that the world was falling apart and urban decay was unstoppable. Which also ties into the overpopulation concerns mentioned, and helped feed cyberpunk.

* Of course, that means that you need to have your lower class workers in there somewhere, unless you've managed to automate them away.


Another aspect was efficiency, you design in synergies like the wastes from one factory are piped directly to another as raw material.

[thrash]

Originally Posted by fchase8

While there is interesting stuff there in the last century-plus, and in pre-history, there isn't a lot in the vast gulf in between.

What difference does that make for an Infinite Worlds campaign? The question is, are there interesting things going on in this geographic region across multiple timelines?

It's not as if there were ever dungeons on Mount San Francisco in our timeline,* even 200,000 years ago before it blew. But a timeline that diverged more than 200,000 years ago where the mountain didn't blow, is still an active volcano, and boasts a megadungeon that was dedicated to producing tools out of meteoric iron before the supply ran out 100 years ago -- that's interesting.


* Egyptian tunnels in the Grand Canyon notwithstanding.

[dcarson]

And you are less than 60 miles from Winslow, AZ.

[thrash]

Originally Posted by dcarson

And you are less than 60 miles from Winslow, AZ.

At least part of the incident referred to in the Eagle's song appears to have taken place in Flagstaff (and involved a Toyota). Undoubtedly didn't scan as well.

Might be a reason to visit WInslow in timeline Holly, though, and see what's become of it.

[ericthered]

The scout patrol might find a good use for flagstaff as a base. It close to some fairly remote country suitable for popping a drone into.

[thrash]

Originally Posted by ericthered

The scout patrol might find a good use for flagstaff as a base. It close to some fairly remote country suitable for popping a drone into.

There are some geographic features to Flagstaff that make it likely to sit on major routes in many worlds. It is on a line between Lee's Ferry, the only point on a 420 km (260 mi) stretch of the Colorado River that isn't hemmed in by canyon walls, and Oak Creek Canyon, historically the easiest route down off the Colorado Plateau. The terrain running east-west is fairly flat while avoiding the desert to the south, which resulted in first a wagon road, then a railroad, then Route 66 and I-40.

As such, it seems likely that a cross-dimensional scouting party using Flagstaff as a base could seed probes on transportation moving through the area and achieve a wide spread at relatively low risk.