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Old 08-12-2019, 08:06 PM   #1
maximara
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Default 3e Vulnerability in 4e

At first GURPS update seems straight forward in the conversion until you hit this aspect of 3e's Vulnerability: "or are weakened and hurt every time you merely come within a certain distance of a substance."

That is not how 4e's Vulnerability works at all (You take extra damage from a particular attack form) but it is how 4e's Weakness works (You suffer injury merely by being in the presence of a particular substance or condition).

In fact, this becomes an issue if you try to convert Blood Types vampires to 4e and the book even goes out of its way to state "For each level of Vulnerability purchased, the character takes an extra 1d of damage (or 1d damage for substance that are not used for attack)."

Simply put per GURPS Update 3e Vulnerability (Sunlight) becomes the somewhat nonsensical 4e Vulnerability (Sunlight) which since normally sunlight isn't an attack doesn't do anything.
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Old 08-12-2019, 08:43 PM   #2
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Default Re: 3e Vulnerability in 4e

Use Vulnerability for attacks and Weakness for things that are not attacks.
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Old 08-13-2019, 05:15 AM   #3
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Default Re: 3e Vulnerability in 4e

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Use Vulnerability for attacks and Weakness for things that are not attacks.
Which dodges the issue is that this is not in the update document. IMHO with all the additions to 4e they really need to go back and update the update. :-)
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Old 08-13-2019, 06:59 AM   #4
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Default Re: 3e Vulnerability in 4e

It doesn't have to be a 1:1 mapping. Given the quoted text, 3e Vulnerability becomes both Vulnerability and Weakness. The "... or are weakened ..." is a sign that you've got two different things going on in the original Disadvantage, one of which is Weakness.
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Old 08-13-2019, 10:20 AM   #5
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Default Re: 3e Vulnerability in 4e

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
It doesn't have to be a 1:1 mapping. Given the quoted text, 3e Vulnerability becomes both Vulnerability and Weakness. The "... or are weakened ..." is a sign that you've got two different things going on in the original Disadvantage, one of which is Weakness.
It's not so much a 1:1 mapping. but a note that it can be Vulnerability, Weakness, or both should be there.

There are also many places where what the Update says are no longer true:

Inherent Magic (Knacks) - ... "Knacks are not constructed by reference to a spell any more".

Which is fine until you get to Fixed Magic in GURPS Fantasy which specifically mentions that is how to make knacks. To add to the conversion migraine Thaumatology doesn't even mention Fixed magic even where it was totally relevant (ie the Magical Advantages section)

Last edited by maximara; 08-13-2019 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 08-13-2019, 02:22 PM   #6
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Default Re: 3e Vulnerability in 4e

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Originally Posted by maximara View Post
Which dodges the issue is that this is not in the update document. IMHO with all the additions to 4e they really need to go back and update the update. :-)
While I can understand wanting a more precise conversion, 4e has been out for fifteen years now. At this point the question becomes "is updating a for-free document for a generation-old edition conversion the most valuable use of our time?" - you may be out of luck.
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Old 08-14-2019, 12:41 PM   #7
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Default Re: 3e Vulnerability in 4e

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While I can understand wanting a more precise conversion, 4e has been out for fifteen years now. At this point the question becomes "is updating a for-free document for a generation-old edition conversion the most valuable use of our time?" - you may be out of luck.
As opposed to making books out of semi-popular (ie nitch) stuff like Mars Attacks! or Casey and Andy? More over licensed stuff cost money.

Nevermind that a huge hunk of GURPS is still in 3e land (even if you remove the fan and expired license stuff), which means by their very nature they are older then the update itself. So those books would benefit from an update to the Update making them slightly easier to sale and reducing the need to come up with 4e versions of those books.

So the door swings more towards an update of the Update then not doing so.

Last edited by maximara; 08-14-2019 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 08-14-2019, 02:09 PM   #8
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Default Re: 3e Vulnerability in 4e

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Originally Posted by maximara View Post
As opposed to making books out of semi-popular (ie nitch) stuff like Mars Attacks! or Casey and Andy? More over licensed stuff cost money.

Nevermind that a huge hunk of GURPS is still in 3e land (even if you remove the fan and expired license stuff), which means by their very nature they are older then the update itself. So those books would benefit from an update to the Update making them slightly easier to sale and reducing the need to come up with 4e versions of those books.

So the door swings more towards an update of the Update then not doing so.
I'm not saying you're right or wrong - I'm just saying that's the question the SJ Games (or any business) would ask themselves. And I have no doubt they've done a cost/benefit analysis on it, and come to the conclusion that it's not the most productive use of their resources to do so.

The good news is there is nothing to keep you from doing so - GURPS is a toolkit, and super easy to customize. Heck, even before Jason Levine was the assistant line editor he had a website set up to talk about his modifications to the GURPS rules. This could be your chance to be the change you want to see.
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Old 08-14-2019, 05:30 PM   #9
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Default Re: 3e Vulnerability in 4e

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Originally Posted by talonthehand View Post
I'm not saying you're right or wrong - I'm just saying that's the question the SJ Games (or any business) would ask themselves. And I have no doubt they've done a cost/benefit analysis on it, and come to the conclusion that it's not the most productive use of their resources to do so.

The good news is there is nothing to keep you from doing so - GURPS is a toolkit, and super easy to customize. Heck, even before Jason Levine was the assistant line editor he had a website set up to talk about his modifications to the GURPS rules. This could be your chance to be the change you want to see.
Well I have been putting some of this into the GURPS wiki but some of the abilities are a royal pain to figure out what they equate to as there are not enough sign posts. Something like Steal ST as an innate spell can be done with Vampiric Bite but something like Steal Youth is a little more problematic.

Last edited by maximara; 08-14-2019 at 06:52 PM.
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