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Old 01-16-2009, 12:26 PM   #91
jacobmuller
 
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Default Re: [Mass Combat] Statting a fantasy army

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabiddave
Mass combat shows true benefit for dragoons on the TL 6-12 table, where they could be simulated as mounted rifles (TS 20) and dismount to be riflemen (TS 40), effectively doubling their TS by dismounting.
Sorry if someone has already mentioned this but, as I read it, the mounted rifles don't get a higher TS by dismounting. Unless I misunderstood Dr K's reply to an earlier thread which made no mention of increasing TS by dismounting... Bicycles as mounts it was: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...hlight=bicycle

To save you the reading:
Quote:
Originally Posted by KROMM
† Looking at the TS differences between Mounted Rifles and Riflemen, we're dropping from TS 40 for Riflemen to TS 20 for MR, but picking up Cavalry capability that can provide superiority (via flanking, in this case). In a head-to-head conflict between one element of each, the Riflemen would get +4 for 2:1 relative TS. The MR would get +3 for 5:1 or better Cavalry Superiority, and +1 for DB, or alternatively, for selecting Mobile Defense or Raid to get an extra +1 from Cavalry Superiority. Each side has +4, making them an even match despite the TS difference.
I'd like to know the reason for the drop in TS.
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Old 01-16-2009, 04:33 PM   #92
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Default Re: [Mass Combat] Statting a fantasy army

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pomphis
Centaurs with bows ? Elves on unicorns ?
Centaurs with bows would be Horse Archers or Medium Cavalry. Probably horse archers, to my mind, but depends on your taste.

Elves on unicorns could be any of the cavalry types, though you'd expect them to be excellent troops with excellent equipment.

Neither of them seems to present a mode of cavalry combat distinct from the existing versions.

Medium Cavalry as written is needed to represent cataphracts and some persian cavalry, I believe. But 'medium cavalry' without Fire capability is either very heavy light cavalry or very light heavy cavalry, most readily classified by whether they serve as scouts.

Making an inferior unit type certainly won't change any balance at all so long as it doesn't cost less per point of TS than heavy cav. It just doesn't seem necessary.
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Old 01-16-2009, 06:45 PM   #93
David L Pulver
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Default Re: [Mass Combat] Statting a fantasy army

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobmuller
I'd like to know the reason for the drop in TS.
- Typically 1-in-3 or 1-in-4 men serves as a horse-holder, who while adding to overall strength somewhat reduces offensive capability.
- Slight reduction in capability overall due to the risk of coming under fire while they are still mounted (esp. by artillery)
- Some orientation in training toward mounted attack, riding, and scouting rather than hard-core infantry focus
- assumed less likely to have squad auto-rifle (TL6) or light machine gun (TL7)
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Old 01-16-2009, 10:43 PM   #94
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Default Re: [Mass Combat] Statting a fantasy army

Re: adding F

I realized that I neglected a) to look at "raw" cavalry costs and b) that LC has Rec. If Rec costs as much as F, as the infantry numbers suggest, LC without Rec would be 80K/16K. That would be 40K/8K per point of TS. This agrees nicely with HC costs and would lead to MC without F costing 120K/24K, which would leave 30K/6K for the F component in MC. Which is a nice 10K/2K per point of F-TS.

This would then suggest that MI with F would be 60K/12K and HI with F would be 70K/14K if F is capped at 3, as I prefer.

This would mean that 1 point of cavalry TS costs 40K/16K, and 1 point of infantry TS costs 10K/2K. F costs 10K/2K per point of TS having it. Rec costs 20K/4K.

Which would permit the building of other units, like Halfling Slingers with TS 1, Rec and F: 40K/16K.
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Old 01-16-2009, 11:25 PM   #95
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Default Re: [Mass Combat] Statting a fantasy army

I forgot: to maintain consistency with existing F capable elements the cost modifications would have to be applied to base cost, so that percentage based modifications for features affect them too.
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Old 01-16-2009, 11:53 PM   #96
David L Pulver
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Default Re: [Mass Combat] Statting a fantasy army

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pomphis
Re: adding F

I realized that I neglected a) to look at "raw" cavalry costs and b) that LC has Rec. If Rec costs as much as F, as the infantry numbers suggest, LC without Rec would be 80K/16K. That would be 40K/8K per point of TS. This agrees nicely with HC costs and would lead to MC without F costing 120K/24K, which would leave 30K/6K for the F component in MC. Which is a nice 10K/2K per point of F-TS.

This would then suggest that MI with F would be 60K/12K and HI with F would be 70K/14K if F is capped at 3, as I prefer.

This would mean that 1 point of cavalry TS costs 40K/16K, and 1 point of infantry TS costs 10K/2K. F costs 10K/2K per point of TS having it. Rec costs 20K/4K.

Which would permit the building of other units, like Halfling Slingers with TS 1, Rec and F: 40K/16K.
I remember I used something like (from memory):
Cost to Raise = (TS + T) * (V + W + X) * [Y+Z]
(T derived from transport capacity (usually 0), V is a constant, W is a value derived from mobility class, X is a value derived from the number/type of special qualities (with counter-qualities worth half as much), Y is a TL factor that varies depending on starting TL and the general table
Z is the sum of case modifiers used to give values that improve realism in special cases (ships factored somewhat differently than land units).
The values of individual variables I don't recall offhand (it's been nearly a year since I worked them out). Feel free to assign anything that seems reasonable or just make up your own values!
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Last edited by David L Pulver; 01-17-2009 at 03:26 AM.
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Old 01-18-2009, 12:57 PM   #97
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Default Re: [Mass Combat] Statting a fantasy army

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth
Medium Cavalry as written is needed to represent cataphracts and some persian cavalry, I believe.
Not to mention Samurai.
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