Mass Combat Pikemen problem

[Pomphis]

Pikemen are: TS 4, (Cv), WT 1, Foot, 60K, 12K.
Heavy Infantry is: TS 4, WT 1, Foot, 40K, 8K.
Adding Neutralize Cav (for example by giving them halberds) to HI increases costs by 25%. This results in TS 4, (Cv), WT 1, Foot, 50K, 10K. Which is similar to Pikemen, just cheaper.

[cmdicely]

Originally Posted by Pomphis

Pikemen are: TS 4, (Cv), WT 1, Foot, 60K, 12K.
Heavy Infantry is: TS 4, WT 1, Foot, 40K, 8K.
Adding Neutralize Cav (for example by giving them halberds) to HI increases costs by 25%. This results in TS 4, (Cv), WT 1, Foot, 50K, 10K. Which is similar to Pikemen, just cheaper.

I would suggest that the requirement for an in-game justification for Neutralize (Class) also means that if a same-TL identical element with the Neutralize (Class) ability sought already exists with a different cost to raise and maintain, you can't add that form of Neutralize (Class) to the base element at issue; it is a special case.

[Lupo]

This additional requirement should be explicitly recommended in the book.

Or, possibly, Pikemen should cost 50k instead of 60k, or Neutralize should be +50% instead of +25%.

I understand that GURPS Mass Combat needs to provide "ready to use" troops, as well ass rules for build your own troops using modifiers... but I really think that the two 'systems' should be compatible (e.g., produce the same results).

I see little reason for giving the Pikemen a cost to raise of 60k when "anti-cavalry infantry" (that is, Pikemen) cost 50k. Since these costs are assigned arbitrarily by the author, one could expect him to assign a cost that matched the "calculated" cost...

[Sanity]

I second that. Looks like an errata to me - provided tables and construction rules SHOULD be compatible ;)

[vicky_molokh]

Thirded. I'm not into MC (yet), but I think the fudge is small enough to go unnoticed in the next 'printing'.

[David L Pulver]

Originally Posted by Lupo

This additional requirement should be explicitly recommended in the book.

Or, possibly, Pikemen should cost 50k instead of 60k, or Neutralize should be +50% instead of +25%.

I understand that GURPS Mass Combat needs to provide "ready to use" troops, as well ass rules for build your own troops using modifiers... but I really think that the two 'systems' should be compatible (e.g., produce the same results).

I see little reason for giving the Pikemen a cost to raise of 60k when "anti-cavalry infantry" (that is, Pikemen) cost 50k. Since these costs are assigned arbitrarily by the author, one could expect him to assign a cost that matched the "calculated" cost...

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The Neutralize options need some additional text to indicate they're mostly intended for very specialized applications. Halberd-wielding infantry should probably simply be heavy infantry with good-quality equipment; a halberd doesn't quite rise to the occasion of anti-cavalry weaponry; it's assumed that all heavy infantry with good gear will likely be properly armed with spears, halberds, or a sword-and-pilum type arrangement.

I'd originally restricted Neutralize (Class) to the ones you don't actually find in the pre-made units: neutralize C3I, Recon, Artillery, Fire (which should be VERY rare) and (for land and air only) Naval. Late change to allow other classes was ill-advised, I think.

[Lupo]

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

I'd originally restricted Neutralize (Class) to the ones you don't actually find in the pre-made units: neutralize C3I, Recon, Artillery, Fire (which should be VERY rare) and (for land and air only) Naval. Late change to allow other classes was ill-advised, I think.

Ok, I get it this way. Thank you for this little "designer's note".