[Mass Combat] Non human TS

[Tyneras]

Idea Removed.

[mlangsdorf]

Non-human troops would just have different specials, training, or equipment qualities than human troops. There's really no difference between a bunch of human knights (Elite Heavy Cavalry in Very Fine equipment) and a bunch of superhumanly powerful orcs on their deadly warboars (Crack Heavy Cavalry with the Supertroops special).

[Polydamas]

From what he posted here, Pulver used an empirical approach to calculating TS and Strategy modifiers (ie. he looked at a lot of fights to find ones where he could isolate a single variable). There is no way to do that for fictional or nonhuman troops.

Based on the philosophy of the system, I would avoid modifiers in the range (-50%, +50%) ie. > -50% and < +50%. This will probably mean that most "humans with face paint" races will have the same base TS as humans. Giants (minotaurs, ogres, etc. 50-100% taller than humans) look like a perfect case for the Super-Soldiers rule.

[Dinadon]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

Giants (minotaurs, ogres, etc. 50-100% taller than humans) look like a perfect case for the Super-Soldiers rule.

Well, these all have specific elements for them. But the principle still stands.

[Bruno]

It depends so heavily on the arbitrary choices the GM made when building those racial templates, and how much various features may or may not factor into combat, that I don't blame SJG for not even attempting some sort of universal "convert from racial template to TS modifier" system.

You can't use the point cost of the template - it includes lots of things that may have no relevance to the situation.

You have to go through and look at each individual element, sorting into "relevant to combat or not", then take that pile of combat traits and compare to a human soldier.

A DF minotaur might be equivalent to an elite troop (due to extra ST and HT) and effectively get a boost in "equipment" for free (for natural DR and weapons) but they're also bad tempered and berserk and dumb as a box of rocks - a unit of minotaurs is going to disintegrate into a murderous rampage on a regular basis. How do you price that? How CAN you price that? Nobody's EVER managed to find and field an entire unit full of foul tempered berserkers with IQ 8 in history, I can guarentee that.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Tyneras

I don't like assigning Troop Quality based on basic stats, because in my mind, Troop Quality is how much better than the average Joe Minotaur who got yanked off the street you are. So Joe Minotaur starts off Inferior Quality, give him some expensive training, he goes up to Average, more training for better results, etc.

If you want to invent a new element to represent the minotaur troops, then you can take that approach. On the other hand, many such things can be represented as pre-existing elements with modifiers, potentially including adjusted quality.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

If you want to invent a new element to represent the minotaur troops, then you can take that approach. On the other hand, many such things can be represented as pre-existing elements with modifiers, potentially including adjusted quality.

Importantly, if "Minotaurs are kind of like elite light infantry troups with good equipment", then you have a benchmark for making up the new base unit - start with the TS, cost to raise, and cost to maintain of elite light infantry troups, and adjust as you think necessary.

So, for example, you say "Minotaurs don't actually cost to maintain because of their good equipment - it's not like the horns and tough skin need armorers!" So you ignore the +50% for good equipment, or cut it down to +25% for having to feed them (they're big and hungry?)

Et voilla, you get

Minotaurs: TS 5, Class Rec, WT 1 Mob foot, 140k raise, 13.2k maintain, TL 1 (Impetuous)