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Old 01-23-2022, 08:36 AM   #31
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Default Re: Archery in this game kind of sucks.

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Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
A mail shirt has DR4 vs impaling. It has DR2 vs crushing.
They may have been referring to Classic rules where Chain was "DR4* (...) * DR 2 vs. impaling" (Classic Basic Set pg 72)
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Old 01-23-2022, 05:09 PM   #32
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Default Re: Archery in this game kind of sucks.

Honestly, while there's been a lot of good advice on this thread about optimised archer builds, none of it is worth anything unless you solve the problem of a GM who apparently allows well-armoured (presumably) human opponents to cover 30 yards in one round.

That suggests to me a GM who doesn't want players using sensible tactics and diverse combat builds; they just want to get into the hack-hack-hack melee ASAP. In that case, there's little point playing anything except a hack-hack-hack melee fighter.
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Old 01-23-2022, 05:37 PM   #33
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Default Re: Archery in this game kind of sucks.

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That suggests to me a GM who doesn't want players using sensible tactics and diverse combat builds; they just want to get into the hack-hack-hack melee ASAP. In that case, there's little point playing anything except a hack-hack-hack melee fighter.
That's certainly a possible explanation. That's why I advocated talking with the GM about the problem. If they acknowledge that it's a problem, and undertake to fix it, that tends to falsify your interpretation. If they stand their ground, that supports it—and it's time either to make a melee fighter or to resign.
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Old 01-23-2022, 06:50 PM   #34
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Default Re: Archery in this game kind of sucks.

We also haven't heard back from the OP as to some clarifications. Was that REALLY a case that the GM allowed the melee fighters to go 30 hexes a round? (Because yikes, that's over 120 mph.) Did the OP actually speak with the GM over this? Is it really the case that NPCs in this campaign are always at least in mail? And is this an ongoing thing in this campaign, or was this the OP's first session?

Never mind, finally ... look. The OP's saying that archery sucks in GURPS, and my knee jerk reaction was "In that campaign, maybe, but not generally; hmm, you must be new to the system."

Only look at the profile, and the OP's been playing GURPS for over 30 years, and has a few hundred posts on the forum spread over seven years. Huh? This doesn't square.
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Old 01-23-2022, 07:52 PM   #35
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Default Re: Archery in this game kind of sucks.

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WWas that REALLY a case that the GM allowed the melee fighters to go 30 hexes a round? (Because yikes, that's over 120 mph.) e.
Just 60 mph. Speed in mph comes to almost exactly to 2x Gurps Basic Move.
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Old 01-23-2022, 08:05 PM   #36
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Default Re: Archery in this game kind of sucks.

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I get that it's more realistic being slower and doing less damage than a sword or axe slash, but this is a game. There should be some gameplay balances that make bows a bit more useful.
Keep in mind that part of the balance is that archers can position themselves so that there is minimal risk of them getting hurt.* If an archer wants to inflict as much damage and do as many attacks as a hand-to-hand fighter then it is reasonable for them to have to stand up close and risk getting hit like a hand-to-hand fighter.

* Though a 60-mph foe makes that more difficult. Usain Bolt's fastest speed is 23.4 mph. Yohan Blake's is 23.1 mph.
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Old 01-23-2022, 09:06 PM   #37
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Default Re: Archery in this game kind of sucks.

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Keep in mind that part of the balance is that archers can position themselves so that there is minimal risk of them getting hurt.* If an archer wants to inflict as much damage and do as many attacks as a hand-to-hand fighter then it is reasonable for them to have to stand up close and risk getting hit like a hand-to-hand fighter.
Heck, it's common in video games for firearms to do less damage than melee weapons, entirely as a sort of balancing factor - using ranged weapons allows you to keep your distance. In a game where characters are fighting like in the older Final Fantasy games (and even in many of those, ranged weapons didn't have the same damage output as melee, but allowed characters to deal full damage from the "back row" - a game mechanic that let characters take less damage in exchange for dealing less damage with melee weapons), of course, that benefit is largely lost.
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Old 01-24-2022, 07:37 AM   #38
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Default Re: Archery in this game kind of sucks.

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We also haven't heard back from the OP as to some clarifications. Was that REALLY a case that the GM allowed the melee fighters to go 30 hexes a round? (Because yikes, that's over 120 mph.) Did the OP actually speak with the GM over this? Is it really the case that NPCs in this campaign are always at least in mail? And is this an ongoing thing in this campaign, or was this the OP's first session?

Never mind, finally ... look. The OP's saying that archery sucks in GURPS, and my knee jerk reaction was "In that campaign, maybe, but not generally; hmm, you must be new to the system."

Only look at the profile, and the OP's been playing GURPS for over 30 years, and has a few hundred posts on the forum spread over seven years. Huh? This doesn't square. .
I support your point that the OP has never come back to clarify, which is intensely frustrating for people that are trying to help.

However the last line made me think you may not realize how other people use GURPS.

Quote:
Only look at the profile, and the OP's been playing GURPS for over 30 years, and has a few hundred posts on the forum spread over seven years. Huh? This doesn't square. .
That very nearly describes me and I can tell you to this day I have never used (as a player or GM) any GURPS mechanic involving the post 1500AD methods of Driving, Flying, Sailing or Space travel. I have never used or experience Warp mechanics, I have never played or run a Supers game, I have never even read a GURPS book that with a setting above TL8 (except mentions that occur in Basic and the like).

Just two years ago became part of a game that takes place in 'modern times' uses a form of RPM, Firearms, Smart Phones, and PCs need 'regular jobs' that take time and factor into the game. Every one of these things was utterly and completely new to me in a GURPS game.

I still think RPM is the Debian of the GURPS world and people that understand it are obscure little goblin people that speak a language I will never understand, but it seems like it might be really useful if one had the time and use case to learn it.

There is so much to GURPS that its not hard at all for me to believe someone has never experienced the RAW form of Archery in a medieval, possibly Med-Fan, setting. I too would like to see some feedback from the OP, if for no other reason so that people might know what helped or what didn't.

Some return communication from the OP is probably the next best step.
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Old 01-24-2022, 08:42 AM   #39
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Default Re: Archery in this game kind of sucks.

As others have said, crossing 30 yards in a single turn is unrealistic, but crossing 15 yards toward a counter-charging foe before an archer can loose two aimed arrows is pretty reasonable. If the other PCs held back and let the NPCs charge them (A PC with patience? Heresy!), at least a second shot should have been possible. And the other PCs really should consider having their own ranged attacks. A couple of javelins make a fine addition to almost any loadout.
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Old 01-24-2022, 10:11 AM   #40
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Default Re: Archery in this game kind of sucks.

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Originally Posted by RGTraynor View Post
We also haven't heard back from the OP as to some clarifications. Was that REALLY a case that the GM allowed the melee fighters to go 30 hexes a round? (Because yikes, that's over 120 mph.) Did the OP actually speak with the GM over this? Is it really the case that NPCs in this campaign are always at least in mail? And is this an ongoing thing in this campaign, or was this the OP's first session?

Never mind, finally ... look. The OP's saying that archery sucks in GURPS, and my knee jerk reaction was "In that campaign, maybe, but not generally; hmm, you must be new to the system."

Only look at the profile, and the OP's been playing GURPS for over 30 years, and has a few hundred posts on the forum spread over seven years. Huh? This doesn't square.
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Some return communication from the OP is probably the next best step.
Yeah, also a lot of people just dont use the forums heavily.
However, wqe also see people trolling the forums and when someone posts a question and doesn't seem to stick around for replies I tend to think they are trolling and move along to others more actively engaged.
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