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Old 01-20-2022, 10:22 PM   #1
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default what if you don't want your foe to fall on your spear?

I was looking at B557 and result 5 ("you hit a solid object") on the Unarmed Critical Miss Table. It also applies to results 6 and 16 on that table.

Instead of a broad "wall, floor, etc" the "exception" says "you fall on his weapon" if the foe you missed was holding a readied Impaling weapon.

There might be situations where that's not desirable for the spear-holder though, like "I don't want to kill this crazed peasant trying to punch me, he's drunk and I'm trying to protect him" or "I at least don't want him stuck on my spear, it would take time to get him off where I could be attacked by others" or even "he has acid blood which is going to ruin my spear"

So should there be some option to maybe treat this like a non-critical successful attack on a weapon where the spear-holder might perform a dodge or parry to prevent contact with his spear if he doesn't want the free auto-impale against the unarmed attacker who crit-failed a punch on him?

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a similar concern for results 3 and 18... if the GM says "walk facefirst
into an opponent’s fist" shouldn't the owner of that fist have a say in if they WANT their fist to make contact?

I think "you trip and fall on your head" is more analagous to the earlier "you hit a wall" or "you hit a floor" results that don't involve contact with other characters.

I was thinking 3/18 instead of auto-KO could be something like "take a 2-yard fall/collision to your skull" or maybe like 5/16 where you suffer the results of the striking ST you were using for the failed attack? It seems like helmet and skull DR should matter.
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Old 01-21-2022, 01:16 AM   #2
Pursuivant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default Re: what if you don't want your foe to fall on your spear?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
So should there be some option to maybe treat this like a non-critical successful attack on a weapon where the spear-holder might perform a dodge or parry to prevent contact with his spear if he doesn't want the free auto-impale against the unarmed attacker who crit-failed a punch on him?
In the case of an unwanted Critical Hit/opponent Critical Miss, I'd allow the opponent to roll vs. Weapon skill or make a Dodge roll to negate the effect. Essentially, it's a form of "pulling your punches."

If the GM is feeling indulgent, perhaps allow a suitable weapon or unarmed combat skill roll to convert the critical into a less damaging, more desirable effect like a disarm.
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Old 01-21-2022, 02:44 AM   #3
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: what if you don't want your foe to fall on your spear?

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
I

So should there be some option to maybe treat this like a non-critical successful attack on a weapon where the spear-holder might perform a dodge or parry to prevent contact with his spear if he doesn't want the free auto-impale against the unarmed attacker who crit-failed a punch on him?

- .
No, there shouldn't. His bad luck isn't about what you want to happen. Critical misses aren't something the opponent did deliberately.
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Old 01-21-2022, 06:56 AM   #4
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: what if you don't want your foe to fall on your spear?

If it's a Critical Failure on the part of the attacker, I'd allow a Parry to get the weapon out of the way. If it's a Critical Success on the part of the defender (that is, a Critical Success on an Active Defense, which is treated as a Critical Failure on the attack), I'd allow the player to simply waive the benefit of the Critical Success and treat it as a normal Success.
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Old 01-21-2022, 08:41 AM   #5
Rolando
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Panama
Default Re: what if you don't want your foe to fall on your spear?

If you don't want to hurt someone don't point a spear at them.

If you have a spear at hand and trying to control a drunken peasant (for example) you may say to the GM you are not using your spear in a dangerous way, you are using it mostly to parry and push, probably with both hands (across the chest) or something.

If you are using the spear with an intent to kill you probably have it pointed to the target and a critical failure is as surprising to the target as to you.
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Old 01-21-2022, 11:01 AM   #6
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: what if you don't want your foe to fall on your spear?

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Originally Posted by Rolando View Post
If you don't want to hurt someone don't point a spear at them.

If you have a spear at hand and trying to control a drunken peasant (for example) you may say to the GM you are not using your spear in a dangerous way, you are using it mostly to parry and push, probably with both hands (across the chest) or something.

If you are using the spear with an intent to kill you probably have it pointed to the target and a critical failure is as surprising to the target as to you.
There could be a situation where you're pointing the spear's business end at the person as a means of intimidation, to convince them to keep their distance, without any desire to actually harm them. That's the situation where I'd allow a Parry to move the weapon out of line; if you're holding it for a cross-check, I wouldn't even count it as a "Readied Impaling weapon," at least for purposes of a CritFail causing the target to be impaled.
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Old 01-21-2022, 12:33 PM   #7
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Default Re: what if you don't want your foe to fall on your spear?

Getting out of the way seems like a dodge.
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Old 01-21-2022, 12:42 PM   #8
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: what if you don't want your foe to fall on your spear?

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Getting out of the way seems like a dodge.
Parry can be used to get a weapon out of the way if it's the target of an attack, so I'd let it work here as well (it's another case of "get the weapon out of the way"). Dodge would certainly also be an option, but Parry is usually higher.
EDIT: Of course, the GM could be justified in saying that only getting the weapon out of the way (that is, using Parry) means the attacker stumbles into you rather than your weapon, which may risk you falling down or similar.
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Old 01-21-2022, 02:51 PM   #9
Pursuivant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default Re: what if you don't want your foe to fall on your spear?

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
No, there shouldn't. His bad luck isn't about what you want to happen. Critical misses aren't something the opponent did deliberately.
If you're going for gritty realism and you're facing a competent foe (or if both fighters are equally incompetent), then your interpretation is right.

I was thinking of a slightly more cinematic combat where the spear-user is competent and the opponent is impaired or unskilled.
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Old 01-21-2022, 03:25 PM   #10
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Default Re: what if you don't want your foe to fall on your spear?

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Parry can be used to get a weapon out of the way if it's the target of an attack, so I'd let it work here as well (it's another case of "get the weapon out of the way"). Dodge would certainly also be an option, but Parry is usually higher.
EDIT: Of course, the GM could be justified in saying that only getting the weapon out of the way (that is, using Parry) means the attacker stumbles into you rather than your weapon, which may risk you falling down or similar.
I think with the foe's whole person falling toward you I might require a retreating defense in any case.
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