Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-29-2018, 03:26 PM   #21
Otaku
 
Otaku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
The people talking about RP uses for debt are basically treating it as an involuntary duty.
I know I'm revealing my ignorance, but I thought it was more like an Enemy, just tweaked to collect debt instead of the usual issues.

Which might be what makes Debt legit; it isn't that you can't model certain aspects of it with different traits, but that having them all in a single package is handy.
__________________
My GURPS Fourth Edition library consists of Basic Set: Characters, Basic Set: Campaigns, Martial Arts, Powers, Powers: Enhanced Senses, Power-Ups 1: Imbuements, Power-Ups 2: Perks, Power-Ups 3: Talents, Power-Ups 4: Enhancements, Power-Ups 6: Quirks, Power-Ups 8: Limitations, Powers, Social Engineering, Supers, and one issue of Pyramid (3/83), most of which was provided through the generosity of others. Thanks! :)
Otaku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2018, 03:39 PM   #22
johndallman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
I've had some GM's that allowed a player to go into "Point debt" for something, creating a literal point loan, but it always ended up messy no matter how much both player and GM tried to make it work out.
I've been extended a loan by a GM of a single point, deducted from the session's experience award at the end of play. That works fine; it happened when there was a good plot reason for the character to learn a skill, but had no points on hand.
johndallman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2018, 07:25 PM   #23
Otaku
 
Otaku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
I've been extended a loan by a GM of a single point, deducted from the session's experience award at the end of play. That works fine; it happened when there was a good plot reason for the character to learn a skill, but had no points on hand.
Something like that might be fine, but it was never that small. Well, perhaps at first, but soon it was double digits and - I think at its worst - at one time even low triple-digit amounts were allowed. In the case of the latter, I think it was to allow an expensive Racial Template on a starting PC without eating up all the available CP. IIRC correctly, a percentage of the player's earned CP (minimum of 1) would go towards paying it off. >.>
__________________
My GURPS Fourth Edition library consists of Basic Set: Characters, Basic Set: Campaigns, Martial Arts, Powers, Powers: Enhanced Senses, Power-Ups 1: Imbuements, Power-Ups 2: Perks, Power-Ups 3: Talents, Power-Ups 4: Enhancements, Power-Ups 6: Quirks, Power-Ups 8: Limitations, Powers, Social Engineering, Supers, and one issue of Pyramid (3/83), most of which was provided through the generosity of others. Thanks! :)
Otaku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2018, 07:40 PM   #24
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
I know I'm revealing my ignorance, but I thought it was more like an Enemy, just tweaked to collect debt instead of the usual issues.
It's only an Enemy if you don't pay your debts. Otherwise, it's just someone expecting you to cough up money, and if you can't, it's a plot hook.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2018, 01:01 AM   #25
vicky_molokh
GURPS FAQ Keeper
 
vicky_molokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyv, Ukraine
Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
The people talking about RP uses for debt are basically treating it as an involuntary duty.
I'd say it's both. Normally the PC is low on take-home money even despite having good starting funds and ongoing wealth (e.g. a lucrative job and good socioeconomic connections). If the PC fails to pay up, then something duty/enemy-like shows up. That seems to be the niche that Debt fills, and you're offering to throw that away without providing an adequate replacement, only replacing the conditional part of it.
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper
vicky_molokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2018, 10:20 AM   #26
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
That seems to be the niche that Debt fills, and you're offering to throw that away without providing an adequate replacement, only replacing the conditional part of it.
The problem is it does a terrible job of filling that niche.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2018, 08:02 PM   #27
jason taylor
 
jason taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt

As a side note, Ruth Benedict said that when she was in Japan there was a spike in suicides every New Year when contracts come due. To paraphrase Miyagi, in Japan, honor VERY important.

That could make debt an extremely hazardous duty.
__________________
"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison
jason taylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2018, 08:05 PM   #28
tanksoldier
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason taylor View Post
As a side note, Ruth Benedict said that when she was in Japan there was a spike in suicides every New Year when contracts come due. To paraphrase Miyagi, in Japan, honor VERY important.

That could make debt an extremely hazardous duty.
I think that would be both a Debt and Code of Honor interacting.

Suicide is high in Japan because of their code of honor: salarymen, executives, schoolchildren...

...not because of debt.
tanksoldier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2022, 09:13 AM   #29
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt

I was looking into kitting out some characters for a modern game and it occurred to me that the obvious way to get the large sea-worthy boat they needed was to take a loan out on it. For whatever reason it took the modern context to get me to realize that.

It would be interesting to offer character creation rules where wealth can be bought with meta-traits and thus don't count debt towards the disadvantage limit:

Investments (Major Item): gain an item up to x10 the starting wealth. Pay 20% of campaign's starting wealth each month. Your income is unaffected.

In modern games, buying wealth this way is a loosing game. Actually, looking at the implicit interest rate from paying 2% of the item's cost per month (and thus 12% a year), Investments as above isn't a great deal compared to a modern business loan. It would be interesting to drop the interest paid to be closer to modern rates.

Either way, my modern group will be acquiring some fairly steep payments on their boat... which just provides some pressure to acquire loot more quickly.
__________________
Be helpful, not pedantic

Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog

Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!
ericthered is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2022, 12:12 PM   #30
RGTraynor
 
RGTraynor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pioneer Valley
Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
I actually haven't seen a game where the Wealth/Jobs/COL rules made any sense.

They've always worked at my table. And they would work pretty much at any table where:

* The GM keeps a tight rein on how much loot is handed out;
* The GM allows for enough downtime to make jobs feasible and desirable;
* The campaign pays enough attention to logistics to make such details warranted; and
* The setting involves stable polities.

I agree they make less sense in milieus like dungeon fantasy or post-apoc, at tables where bandits carrying steamer trunks full of silver meet with bored yawns, and in many campaigns in which the PCs are the swaggering masters of the earth to whom all mere mortals (= NPCs) are expected to kowtow, and the King's tax collectors are met with derision.
__________________
My gaming blog: Apotheosis of the Invisible City

"Call me old-fashioned, but after you're dead, I don't think you should be entitled to a Dodge any more." - my wife

It's not that I don't understand what you're saying. It's that I disagree with what you're saying.
RGTraynor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
debt, disadvantage of the week

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.