Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-29-2012, 12:32 PM   #11
Nosforontu
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: Truly "alien" aliens - idea resources?

Ian Douglass in his 9 book star marine series has aliens that we are in a genocidal warfare with that might not even be aware that we exist for the first thousand years or so of the war, and don't initiate an actual counter attack for close to 2,00 years or so. Though he doens't really get into what we believe to be the alien perspective of our opponents till late in the series.

The various Cthullu Mythos books tends to at least try at creating mind bending other intelligence's which shatter human sanity trying to understand them.
Nosforontu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 12:42 PM   #12
jason taylor
 
jason taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Default Re: Truly "alien" aliens - idea resources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
Life is barbaric by necessity. Fully pacifistic people are fighting some pretty hard wired natures. It can be done, I think, but only with strongly enforced culture. I read the first book, and found it a bit silly.
First one needs a caste of "attack dogs". Then one must assure that they don't bite the owners. Humans manage the first all the time, but somehow the attack dogs tend to end up as the owners rather then the owned.
__________________
"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison
jason taylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 12:57 PM   #13
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Truly "alien" aliens - idea resources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosforontu View Post
Ian Douglass in his 9 book star marine series has aliens that we are in a genocidal warfare with that might not even be aware that we exist for the first thousand years or so of the war, and don't initiate an actual counter attack for close to 2,00 years or so. Though he doens't really get into what we believe to be the alien perspective of our opponents till late in the series.

The various Cthullu Mythos books tends to at least try at creating mind bending other intelligence's which shatter human sanity trying to understand them.
Bah. The most alien intelligences in the mythos are the supposed humans.
David Johnston2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 01:24 PM   #14
SciFiNut
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Default Re: Truly "alien" aliens - idea resources?

Some of H. P. Lovecraft's creations are very alien. For example, the "Great Race of Yith" in "The Shadow out of Time", which was supposed to have dwelt on Earth billions of years ago.

The "Uplift" Trilogy by David Brin also features lots of strange aliens - some similar to creatures on Earth, others very different indeed.

Larry Niven's "Puppeteers" is another classic alien race from science fiction.
SciFiNut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 03:22 PM   #15
Johnny1A.2
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Default Re: Truly "alien" aliens - idea resources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SciFiNut View Post
Larry Niven's "Puppeteers" is another classic alien race from science fiction.

And one that makes a certain amount of sense (other than its much-debated reproductive cycles). They act like one might imagine a herd sapient might act.

OTOH, most of Niven's aliens are rubber-suit humans, such as Kzinti. (Who happens to be humanoid cats, which makes me wonder if they aren't Martian Tigermen by proxy.)
Johnny1A.2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 03:29 PM   #16
Johnny1A.2
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Default Re: Truly "alien" aliens - idea resources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
I find people are typically looking for very different things when they talk about "truly alien aliens". Some of these things overlap, but others don't.

One element that is constantly in contention is how "unrealistic" the aliens can be. Often, the more alien something is, the less plausible, at least to us.
This^^^^^.

It's all very well to talk about 'life as we don't know it' and 'alien mentalities', but past a certain point one reaches a stage where you have to ask if it's meaningful to keep calling the entities 'alive' and 'intelligent'. The category can't be universally encompassing without becoming null.

This is part of why it's so very, very hard to tell good stories with a genuinely alien alien as the key viewpoint character, or at least as the protagonist. The ability of human readers/viewers to empathize with the non-human has limits.

For ex, one of the better alien-makers of SF was Doc Smith. For all the jokes about his characterizations and space opera settings, he created some aliens that really are alien (the Palainians, the Ploorans, the Rigellians, the Eich, the Llurdi, etc). Alien in body, alien in mind. But he almost never used one as a key protagonist or viewpoint character.

The closest exceptions would be Nadreck of Palain VII, and Worsel of Velantia. But note that he made Worsel much more human in mind than the others to use him that way. He uses Nadreck occasionally as a temporary viewpoint character, but never for long, and only under special circumstances. Trying to write an entire book about Nadreck, with him as protagonist using his alien morality and alien priorities, almost certainly just would not work.
Johnny1A.2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 03:58 PM   #17
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: Truly "alien" aliens - idea resources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2 View Post
And one that makes a certain amount of sense (other than its much-debated reproductive cycles). They act like one might imagine a herd sapient might act.
The gw'oth are a nice example of alien in mind and body. Literal starfish aliens, as it were. I'd tone down their intelligence if I were to use them though.

I thought niven straitened out the puppeteer genders by saying puppeteers are really just males and females, but they use a host species that is eaten alive, and translate the term as "female" in order to hide the fact from humans.
__________________
Be helpful, not pedantic

Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog

Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!
ericthered is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 11:01 PM   #18
Johnny1A.2
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Default Re: Truly "alien" aliens - idea resources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
The gw'oth are a nice example of alien in mind and body. Literal starfish aliens, as it were. I'd tone down their intelligence if I were to use them though.

I thought niven straitened out the puppeteer genders by saying puppeteers are really just males and females, but they use a host species that is eaten alive, and translate the term as "female" in order to hide the fact from humans.
Did he? I know Louis Wu concluded that this was what Nessus meant, back in Ringworld, but that scene always looked to me like Louis leaping to a conclusion based on insufficient data. Has Niven confirmed Louis' speculation?
Johnny1A.2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 11:14 PM   #19
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: Truly "alien" aliens - idea resources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2 View Post
Did he? I know Louis Wu concluded that this was what Nessus meant, back in Ringworld, but that scene always looked to me like Louis leaping to a conclusion based on insufficient data. Has Niven confirmed Louis' speculation?
Its confirmed in the "fleet of worlds" series, which is cowritten, and centered around puppeteer's homeworlds. He actually writes puppeteer viewpoints in these books, and we get to see the "companions".

Niven is fond of retconning his own cannon, but I can't see him going back on this one.
__________________
Be helpful, not pedantic

Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog

Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!
ericthered is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 01:09 AM   #20
Earther
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Default Re: Truly "alien" aliens - idea resources?

Two Andrey Tarkovskiy films:

Solaris
Stalker
__________________
The other Stevie Wonder.
Earther is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
aliens

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.