How to defeat Reflexive Insubstantial?

[jeff_wilson]

Poison hidden in food is a deception. The guy has to eat presumably, so when he eats he intentionally remains material with respect to the food and bites, chews, swallows, etc. When the poison begins to work enough to make him aware that something is not right, it's already taken into the tissues. He *might* be able to facilitate emptying his stomach of any as yet undigested poison with Insub, but that's a GM call and might not save him even then.

There is a comics precedent, Spider-man's spidey sense did not react to familiar, sweet old Aunt May, letting her get close enough to brain him with a lead pipe.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

Poison hidden in food is a deception. The guy has to eat presumably, so when he eats he intentionally remains material with respect to the food and bites, chews, swallows, etc. When the poison begins to work enough to make him aware that something is not right, it's already taken into the tissues. He *might* be able to facilitate emptying his stomach of any as yet undigested poison with Insub, but that's a GM call and might not save him even then.

There is a comics precedent, Spider-man's spidey sense did not react to familiar, sweet old Aunt May, letting her get close enough to brain him with a lead pipe.

Spidey's sense has a roll though, so it was penalized by an attack from a source he'd never suspect.

[vicky_molokh]

Visual/audial stuff. Flashbangs still work on Insubstantial because the Insubstantial wants to be able to see the substantial world.

Make the character turn off the ability and shoot it with a Wait immediately on the moment of becoming substantial. IIRC you can't do anything in this split second.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Spidey's sense has a roll though, so it was penalized by an attack from a source he'd never suspect.

It's not always presented as if it needs a roll, or perhaps his build includes Super Luck if it does. It remains that if the owner is mislead about the nature of a hidden danger, they may lower or redirect their defenses elsewhere, and are voluntarily submitting to the contact with the danger's vessel.

[SCAR]

Originally Posted by ZmbeHntr

Is there any way to kill a character with Insubstantial (Reflexive, +40%) without using an attack that has Affects Insubstantial?

This makes me think of the 'ghost' twins from Matrix 2.

If they've got no other limitations of their Insubstantial, some variant of Affects Insubstantial is going to be the main solution (although no necessarily the only one).

If the ability only keeps the character Insubstantial for a short period, then an ongoing damage effect might be a solution.

[PseudoFenton]

Failing that, if your take on what constitutes an attack is so broad - then I suggest continual exposure to said 'attacks'. Then wait for them to dehydrate and become sleep deprived (an attack wakes you up), the attrition of FP loss that they can't restore due to this ability will eventually make them pass-out and then die. It may take a while, but poisoning the air is an easy way to keep a large area "attacked", and if that counts, so should using low level radiation (it might injure you, so it's an 'attack'). Its then very easy for the aggressors to use gas-masks for the poison and shielding (and/or shift work) for the radiation to avoid any harm themselves.

Also, if there is a means that allows an insubstantial entity to affect the substantial world, the reverse is also logically true and you can just use those - if this isn't the case, then who cares? If they can't do anything when insubstantial, then they're effectively removed from any and all situations where someone cares to even provide a token amount of "attacks" their way - which as its not based on the severity of the attack, is really easy to do!

[Walrus]

What about Deceptive Attack with sheer speed explanation?

Also, GM should charge some cost for continual usage of advanatages, usually FP.

Use attacks which target is unaware of. Unless the subject has Danger Sense or something similar.

And the very old way for threatening invulnerable subject: threat their loved ones or valuable possessions.

[Figleaf23]

The discussion on this earlier thread may be of interest.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Walrus

What about Deceptive Attack with sheer speed explanation?

Defensive activations via Reflexive are automatic and happen outside the normal action sequence.

Originally Posted by Walrus

Also, GM should charge some cost for continual usage of advanatages, usually FP.

I can't see a good argument for this to be a universal rule.

Originally Posted by Walrus

Use attacks which target is unaware of. Unless the subject has Danger Sense or something similar.

Reflexive doesn't care if the character is aware or unaware of the attack.

Originally Posted by Walrus

And the very old way for threatening invulnerable subject: threat their loved ones or valuable possessions.

True. The subject isn't invulnerable though. It merely has a defense against more typical attacks.

[Walrus]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

Defensive activations via Reflexive are automatic and happen outside the normal action sequence.
Reflexive doesn't care if the character is aware or unaware of the attack.

Are we talking about the same Reflexive?

Originally Posted by Powers, p. 109

Reflexive is for defenses that take a second to activate, senses that require a second of concentration (e.g., Detect), and anything the GM feels serves a purpose similar to either. It lets your ability switch itself on – under attack if a defense, in the presence of something “interesting” if a sense – without a Ready or Concentrate maneuver.

This doesn't assume you have built-in Danger Sense to activate your defenses. This just means that if you have one, you can activate your ability in zero time outside of your turn as a free action.

Originally Posted by Powers, p. 167

If a switchable movement ability or physical transformation is instantaneous – either in its unmodified form or due to Reduced Time (p. B108) or Reflexive (p. 109) – the user might be able to use it to evade attacks. This is only possible if the GM feels that activating the ability would cause the attack to pass harmlessly around or through the defender. Treat this as a dodge, but roll against the following score instead of Dodge:
Power Dodge = Basic Speed + 3 + Talent/2