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Old 11-12-2012, 03:13 PM   #11
Flyndaran
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Default Re: NPC skill levels that are highly relevant for PCs

What each branch of medical careers can and can't do is very regionally specific. Also, it can very often be what they aren't allowed to do, even if they have the skill and even separate qualifications.
For the most part E.M.T.s are to stabilize and transport patients, not fix them in any way. They aren't allowed to diagnose obvious loons, drug seekers, or morally bankrupt people just using it as a "free" taxi service.
There are many forums where medical personnel complain about how the system or individuals are "broken".

Also, never forget that there are incompetents and morons in every level of every job that somehow stick around.

No one wants the "C" surgeon, but they are quite common.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:14 PM   #12
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Default Re: NPC skill levels that are highly relevant for PCs

Lots of situation bonuses and points spent on specific surgical techniques or an optional specialty of the surgery skill.

Edit
I suspect a lot of highly skilled professionals have a moderate level of skill and appropriate techniques to buy off penalties related to their area of expertise.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:15 PM   #13
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Default Re: NPC skill levels that are highly relevant for PCs

My point is that an EMT/Paramedic will need at least three of the skills a doctor has in order to actually stabilise patients. Notably, Surgery, First Aid/Physician, and Physician again for administering drugs and the like.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:20 PM   #14
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Default Re: NPC skill levels that are highly relevant for PCs

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
My point is that an EMT/Paramedic will need at least three of the skills a doctor has in order to actually stabilise patients. Notably, Surgery, First Aid/Physician, and Physician again for administering drugs and the like.
But very specialized forms of the skill if at all. They treat the symptoms not the underlying cause.
Surgery rarely covers more than intubation and obvious -otomies and such that might be a way to float the skill over the dexterity from intelligence.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:21 PM   #15
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Default Re: NPC skill levels that are highly relevant for PCs

Surgery, First Aid, and Physician

I think a surgeon a general practitioner and paramedic will all have levels in all of these skills.
The difference will be in the techniques each one has bought and how much they have focused in each area.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:43 PM   #16
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Default Re: NPC skill levels that are highly relevant for PCs

Gurps is a bit vague on what those skills actually cover.
Sadly, Administration is necessary to get anywhere in most jobs. Use the system or get abused by it.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:42 PM   #17
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Default Re: NPC skill levels that are highly relevant for PCs

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
The hospital was decent, so I deemed that the controlling skill (Physician) of the relevant NPCs was no less than 12, likely 14. All rolls were successes, resulting in a very quick recovery (2 rolls per day, being TL9).
First of all, you're dealing with TL9 medicine, so super-fast healing isn't unreasonable.

While the standard assumption in GURPS is that "qualified professionals" have skill level 12, that doesn't work in some situations. High-risk or high-stress professions where just about every job carries a skill penalty require skill levels of 14 to 16. That doesn't necessarily mean more points in skills, however.

Surgeons are taken from the top med school grads and they get additional training, so it's not unreasonable that a surgeon will have IQ +1 and Manual Dexterity +1 over your standard doctor. That will help Surgery skill.

Second, surgeons specialize, which will boost Surgery skill within their area of expertise. For example, Trauma surgeons are good at "filling holes" and "reconnecting plumbing" but not so good at things like delicate brain surgery or facial reconstruction. For that, once the patient has stabilized, they call on neurosurgeons and plastic surgeons.

Third, as everyone has pointed out, professionals benefit from good support and good tools. For something like a TL9 Level 1 Trauma center, it wouldn't be unreasonable to give a +6 bonus to skill, with intelligent AI providing real-time imaging and diagnostics giving effective skills of 12-14 in those areas.

But, for "routine" use, skill level 12 is good enough to get you a job and let you keep it. But that also implies that you get bonuses for routine tasks and good equipment that boost effective skill to 16+.

How "minor" NPC skills can seriously affect the game depends on the campaign. Generally, it's things like "way finding" or transportation skills which can mess up PCs.

But I don't like to set up situations where if the NPC messes up it derails the campaign. While "want of a nail" situations (failed Professional Skill: Farrier roll) are all too realistic, they're also anti-heroic. If NPCs mess up, it should be for a good dramatic reason, and it should be done in a way that allows the PCs to fix the situation.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:11 PM   #18
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Default Re: NPC skill levels that are highly relevant for PCs

Paramedics used to be and probably still are in constant contact with a doctor who is the one actually telling the paramedic what to do. So in addition to First Aid, Physician, and perhaps Surgeon the paramedic needs some skill with the reporting equipment so that accurate data is sent to the doctor and good observational skills to report to the doctor. The last might be presumed to be part of the relavent medical skills listed above.
Modern medicine is remarkably good at healing quickly, indeed being in a good hospital might grant the Advantage of Quick Healing on a temporary basis in addition to what the RAW grant. If your experiences are from several years ago, even as little as ten years ago perhaps, your experiences are grossly out of date.
Also remember that not all wounds are the same, even if they take the same number of Hit Points. That 2 HP wound might be just a small scratch depending upon what the original wound was and the HP that the character starts out with.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:20 PM   #19
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Default Re: NPC skill levels that are highly relevant for PCs

There may be another factor relevant to seeming high NPC skill levels and that's consultation.

I'm unsure that it's still valid and it wasn't available to Medical Assistants in the military when I was in service but the old "Emergency' TV show which was supposedly based on actual events encountered by Los Angeles paramedics attached to the LA Fire Department had the paramedics in radio contact with doctors at a hospital, so effectively, the doctors were guiding the paramedics in gathering the data for a diagnosis and making the IQ-based rolls for the paramedics, with the paramedics then making the rolls to remember and execute a particular procedure. [ninjaed! (Is that even properly a verb?)]

On a related note, it's probably not solely the equipment which gives a bonus to a doctor's roll in a hospital. I'd assume that it's similar to the effective skill of a contact as per the 3e GURPS Advantage: Contacts.

"Note that the effective skill is not necessarily the NPC's actual skill; the actual skill can be set by the GM if the NPC comes into regular play. For instance, the president of a local steel mill might have actual business-related skills of 16-18, but he has an effective skill of 21, making him worth 4 points, because he himself has good connections!" p. CI22.

In the same way, a hospital physician or surgeon may have a higher effective skill because there is a ready pool of experts that he can consult with right there and likely access, or at least readier access, to experts at other hospitals/medical schools for the really tough cases.

Last edited by Curmudgeon; 11-12-2012 at 05:23 PM. Reason: ninjaed & dropped letter
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:23 PM   #20
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Default Re: NPC skill levels that are highly relevant for PCs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pursuivant View Post
While the standard assumption in GURPS is that "qualified professionals" have skill level 12, that doesn't work in some situations. High-risk or high-stress professions where just about every job carries a skill penalty require skill levels of 14 to 16. That doesn't necessarily mean more points in skills, however.
This follows through in a great many areas - MOST professions combine increased amounts of training and top-level equipment with ostensibly "higher capacity" individuals in a sort of "holy trinity". The greater amount of time and money spent on gear and in training, the greater the expected talent and devotion of the individual.

A neurosurgeon is generally going to start off with a higher* IQ and DX than most doctors (who are already at least higher IQ than the general population), then gets 2-3 times the training, top-shelf equipment, and the strongest supporting medical staff available, and while a family doctor MIGHT meet those standards as well, more often they have more modest talents, resources, and training subtle to a much more modest job. I could see the following as some starting points for TL8 US physicians, the minimum skills needed for these positions without living in fear of a lost license (which, of course, DOES happen!)

Family Doctor:
Diagnosis - 14
First Aid - 14
Physician - 14
Surgery - 12

ER Doctor:
Diagnosis - 15
First Aid - 16
Physician - 15
Surgery - 13

Internist:
Diagnosis - 16
First Aid - 15
Physician - 16
Surgery - 12

General Surgeon:
Diagnosis - 14
First Aid - 16
Physician - 14
Surgery - 16

Neurosurgeon:
Diagnosis - 14
First Aid - 16
Physician - 14
Surgery - 18



*: When I say "IQ" I really mean "IQ + appropriate Talent" - realistically, I think MOST high-end professionals combine a relatively modest IQ with a few grades of Talent in their professions' marquee skills.
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