Star Wars: Imperial Stormtroopers

[SuedodeuS]

Originally Posted by pawsplay

Is that written in the Holy Bible somewhere? Just curious.

B172 has a sidebar mentioning skill levels. It notes that a typical person will have a 12 or 13 in skills he/she uses to make a living. As an Army grunt's job is, essentially*, shoot stuff, he should probably have at least a 12 in his weapon skill (generally Rifle, but Gunner is also appropriate).

Of course, with the Empire's general preference of "quantity over quality," having Stormtroopers who are worse shots than US Army grunts makes perfect sense.


*Yes, I realize they do more than that. But, honestly, when shooting needs to be done, the purpose of the grunt is to do it.

[pawsplay]

Ok, just wanted to be sure I wasn't stomping on convention. Yes, a soldier (infantry anyway) is supposed to be a professional person-who-shoots, but I'm not sure your average grunt is much of a shootist. Honestly, after basic, does anything he do depend on his shooting ability, excepting possibly survival in combat? Given the narrative necessities of the Star Wars universe, I'm inclined to be conservative. Does basic training, or clone training camp, rate more than 2 points in Beam Weapons? Thoughts?

[SuedodeuS]

Originally Posted by pawsplay

Ok, just wanted to be sure I wasn't stomping on convention. Yes, a soldier (infantry anyway) is supposed to be a professional person-who-shoots, but I'm not sure your average grunt is much of a shootist. Honestly, after basic, does anything he do depend on his shooting ability, excepting possibly survival in combat? Given the narrative necessities of the Star Wars universe, I'm inclined to be conservative. Does basic training, or clone training camp, rate more than 2 points in Beam Weapons? Thoughts?

After basic, a soldier generally goes to more advanced training, specific for his MOS. Infantry (that is, the soldiers doing the fighting) probably go on to learn how to shoot more. What depends on his shooting ability, in addition to his survival in the case of combat (as combat is what his job is, one would expect him to try and be good at surviving his job), are things like promotions, possibly keeping his rank (likely rare, but I'd expect a rifleman who can't handle his rifle to get demoted to a lower rank), staying with his unit (maybe even keeping his job), etc. Soldiers are regularly tested as to their pertinant abilities, so a grunt is going to be regularly tested on whether or not he can shoot properly.

Basic alone might not qualify for more than 2 points in a weapon skill, but the MOS training the soldier goes through after basic would boost them a good deal more. And with clones, they should basically be growing up learning this (albeit growing up very quickly), so they should get more than 2 points in the skill as well.

[pawsplay]

Persuasive. I'll make the change.

[Ragitsu]

And yet, bounty hunters regularly out-shoot Stormtroopers ;-}.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

And yet, bounty hunters regularly out-shoot Stormtroopers ;-}.

Only in the presence of protagonists.

Stormtroopers can be quite lethal when killing people without script protection.

[SuedodeuS]

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

And yet, bounty hunters regularly out-shoot Stormtroopers ;-}.

In addition to what Icelander said, most bounty hunters that appear in Star Wars are actually well-regarded for their skills (unless it's a mook bounty hunter, in which case they are just as bad as the 'troopers). They also work alone (or in very small groups), meaning they can't rely on numbers - they need to be a good shot, or they tend to wind up dead (or working bounties that are too boring to make the Star Wars "headlines"). And, of course, there's the beauty of automatic weapons. As high collateral damage and messy corpses probably don't make for particularly successful bounty hunters, I'd suspect them to not have access to some of the heavier weaponry the Imperial forces can field.

[Celjabba]

Originally Posted by pawsplay

An argument has been made by some writers that in the later stages of the Galactic Civil War, the Stormtrooper legions were supplemented by raw conscripts. However, to me that seems inconsistent with the established canon that Stormtroopers are almost incorruptible as well as "precise." In my view, pure cannon fodder would end up in the Army or Navy. Thus, I follow the thinking that Stormtroopers would be recruited from Army veterans or from special academies for the Imperial Youth Scouts or somesuch.

Don't forget that when OWK say "Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise",
he have his mind 20 years in the past, at a time it was so.
Especially against low-cost mass-produced B1 battle-droid.

By the time of a 'new hope', standart have been lowered, and normal troop quality is the norm, well trained but not trained from birth in a genenginnered body like the clone trooper.

Celjabba

[Agramer]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

Does the "basic" stormtrooper get less training with his weapon that a US Army grunt? If not, his skill should be at least 12.

This are averages:
Green troops: skill 9-11 (10)
average troops skill 11-13 (12)
veterans 13-15 (14)

Originally Posted by SuedodeuS

Of course, with the Empire's general preference of "quantity over quality," having Stormtroopers who are worse shots than US Army grunts makes perfect sense.

I cant see Stormtroopers as "quantity".
There were 2 mil of Clone troopers / 10000+ worlds (according to this 800+)

US military alone ,today, has :
Active personnel 1,473,900
Reserve personnel1,458,500

US Marines:
201,031 active (as of 2/28/2009)
40,000 reserve (as of 2009)

North Corea = 2 mil soldiers

So looking at Earth alone well get to stupendous number of soldiers(ofc not all are front line ones).


Coruscant alone: (starwars.wiki)

Official census: 1 trillion permanent ground residents (70% Human, 30% other)

And lets not forget that Empire has Army also(Stormtroopers are more like Marines)

Imperial Army---source


The Imperial Army is the main ground force of the Galactic Empire in the fictional Star Wars universe.

The Imperial Army is a part of the Empire's armed forces. It operates massive ground combat vehicles and maintains garrisons across the galaxy. It also cooperates with other branches of the Empire in a variety of operations. The Imperial Army consists of a considerable number of legions, enough to project power through out the galaxy. Some of the legions are stationed on the capital planet Coruscant, while others are scattered in the Imperial Navy and planetary garrisons across the galaxy. Imperial Army officers and crew typically wear gray uniforms.

Organization...source+extra

Imperial Stormtroopers are independent of the Imperial Navy and the Imperial Army chains of command. They have their own command structure, ranking system and support facilities. Imperial Stormtroopers are stationed on Imperial Navy craft and on Imperial Army bases to ensure the absolute loyalty and obedience to the Emperor.

So from whatever angle I look I simply cant picture them in any other way but as veteran+ quality.


Also do not forget:

Imperial Storm trooper Marksmanship Academy

Luke and Han have Luck advantage on top of above.
(or/and in their case Stormtroopers have multiple levels of IStMarks.Academy)

[SuedodeuS]

Originally Posted by Agramer

This are averages:
Green troops: skill 9-11 (10)
average troops skill 11-13 (12)
veterans 13-15 (14)

Just out of curiosity, where are you getting these numbers from? Personally, I'd probably give Green and Average troops around the same base skill, but Average troops would have better Soldier and Tactics skills - meaning they tend to make better use of cover to get some good Aim bonuses.

So from whatever angle I look I simply cant picture them in any other way but as veteran+ quality.

Look at them as they are in the original trilogy. It's hard to imagine them as anything close to veteran if you do that. :P

Truth be told, I wasn't aware that the Stormtroopers were supposed to be rare, elite troops. In the movies (and the games I've played), they seem to make up the entirety of the Imperial infantry and security forces (with the exception of a few unarmored officers). If you go by what the texts say, then they probably should all be elite. If you go by what the movies portray, they tend to be extremely green. pawsplay appears to have gone for a middle ground.