DF Town near Dungeon online resource

[hal]

Just to add another note of "dissent" to the discussion ;)

There are instances where some skills, despite being used daily, fail to advance beyond the neccessarly level required for daily success. A computer operator who functions as an operator day in and day out for 10 years, isn't neccessarily going to have a computer operations skill of 16 if he is not permitted to engage in activities requiring knowledge or passwords of a senior systems operator. If he is constantly working at a level where the highest skill he will require is a 12, then having the person's skills advance beyond 12 is unreasonable. Same thing with the Lumberjack. If he uses a "telegraphed blow" for a +4 bonus to hit, and his skill is 12 to begin with (professional level), then he will constantly be placing his ax blow against the tree trunk with a modified skill of 16. If he takes pride in cutting the tree down in the quickest possible time and requires that he have even better control of his act, one could see where his skill with an ax might improve to a 14 - maybe.

Few tasks are ever really "mastered" beyond what is needed for the job unless there are driving factors involved, such as pride, need, etc. That's my thought on the topic ;)

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by thulben

This may or may not be off-topic, but I disagree a little bit. I practice kenjutsu and one of the hardest things to learn is to be efficient in your cuts. That is to say let the weapon do a lot of the work. I'd imagine that a lumberjack who swings an axe all day has learned to be efficient or has learned to be very sore...

If one wants to give the Lumberjack the benefit of the doubt, call it Axe Sport or Axe Art, with the inherent -3 to combat abilities.

If not, you might want to give them 1pt in the Combat skill to represent that hs probably CAN swing the thing around better than one who's never held one before.

Otherwise, Prof Skill (Woodcutter) or (Lumberjack) or something, and he's out of luck for combat.

[hal]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

If one wants to give the Lumberjack the benefit of the doubt, call it Axe Sport or Axe Art, with the inherent -3 to combat abilities.

If not, you might want to give them 1pt in the Combat skill to represent that hs probably CAN swing the thing around better than one who's never held one before.

Otherwise, Prof Skill (Woodcutter) or (Lumberjack) or something, and he's out of luck for combat.

I agree with Doug on this issue. If you treat the professional skill as being an "art form", ie not as good as the combat skills which include feinting and such, then it could work reasonably well. When was the last time you heard a lumberjack tell the tale of how he feinted his ax at the upper section of the tree trunk only to hit the lower section of the trunk?

If you get right down to it, whether you use "telegraphic blow" to gain a +4 bonus to hit, or an all out attack with no thought to defense to gain the +4 bonus to hit with your ax - you're still gaining a bonus against the tree to hit ;)

One has to wonder, if the stance required to strike a tree with one's ax in a safe manner, is by its very definition, one that is absent of any capability of defending ones self from an attack by an opponent, qualifying it as (by definition) an all out attack to begin with.

[b-dog]

Originally Posted by thulben

This may or may not be off-topic, but I disagree a little bit. I practice kenjutsu and one of the hardest things to learn is to be efficient in your cuts. That is to say let the weapon do a lot of the work. I'd imagine that a lumberjack who swings an axe all day has learned to be efficient or has learned to be very sore...

At least one person agrees with me. I think of a lumber jack chopping wood as being like a person practicing free throws. If you practice something enough you get really good at it. Swinging an axe long enough I feel will make a person very skillfull with it. At least when I was working with some lumberjacks I was very impressed with how skillful they were.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by b-dog

If you practice something enough you get really good at it.

Again, what a lumberjack does with an axe bears little resemblance to what a warrior does. What practice does a lumberjack have with parrying? Parrying may be half of the rolls one makes with a weapon, but a lumberjack doesn't do it at all. What practice does he have with feinting? Choking up into a defensive grip? Swinging the axe while stepping forward to close with a target or get room for a better defense? Doing deceptive attacks or rapid strikes? Swinging the weapon is an important part of a weapon skill, but it's less than half of what one does with it.

[rlbeaver]

Originally Posted by MacGregor

I'm too much like Trooper6 to be of much help, but...

I would love to see Gurps come out with a DF set of rules/suggestions for designing a generic village/town/city.

Just saying.

I don't know about the quality, but Skirmisher Publishing has 11 books, or one bundle for creating cities that from what I understand is generic. It's called City Builder 1-11...

Think it's on rpgnow's site

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by b-dog

One example I have is say a lumberjack. This guy would be an ordinary person but would likely be very strong (13+) from chopping wood all day and likely have high skill with his axe (15+). This guy would be average in most stats (10) but in his profession he would possibly exceed even an adventurer.

The same is true of a blck smith with his hammer; ST13+ and Hammer skill 15+.

Would this seem right? Thanks.

The woodsman might not be a lot stronger than average actually.
He would be far, far more likely to have fit or very fit.

Blacksmith would likely have the higher strength and fit/very fit.

IME and IMHO (never did smith but did do a fair bit of work with axe/sledge/wedges...they don't start all that heavy...but after the first half hour....)

[Xplo]

Alternately, you could decide that Axe and Two Handed Axe default to Lumberjack -X, where X is whatever you think is appropriate. I like -4, myself; this means that a lumberjack with skill 12-15 will have default Axe skill 8-11, which puts him nicely in the "better than Joe Peasant, but not as good as a professional fighter" range.

Give him a Great Axe (probably the closest equivalent to a tree-chopping axe) and ST 12 or better to wield it, and possibly Fit or a decent HT score, and he'll be someone that most non-warriors won't want to get in a fight with while still being well within the bounds of realism.

[b-dog]

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

Again, what a lumberjack does with an axe bears little resemblance to what a warrior does. What practice does a lumberjack have with parrying? Parrying may be half of the rolls one makes with a weapon, but a lumberjack doesn't do it at all. What practice does he have with feinting? Choking up into a defensive grip? Swinging the axe while stepping forward to close with a target or get room for a better defense? Doing deceptive attacks or rapid strikes? Swinging the weapon is an important part of a weapon skill, but it's less than half of what one does with it.

I think you would be very surprised how coordinated you can become with something like swinging an axe at trees repeatedly for years on end. People work these kinds of jobs are much more coordinated than people think.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by b-dog

I think you would be very surprised how coordinated you can become with something like swinging an axe at trees repeatedly for years on end. People work these kinds of jobs are much more coordinated than people think.

I'm not saying that he can't be coordinated. I've seen lumberjack competitions with log-rolling and all kinds of displays of nimbleness. However, these are best represented by high DX and skills like Jumping and Running. And if you want a fantasy lumberjack to be a good axe warrior as well, that makes sense in-genre. But realistically (since that seems to be what you're arguing from), he's not learning how to fight with an axe.