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Old 08-24-2022, 05:26 PM   #41
Varyon
 
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Default Re: Your tiniest houserules

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Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
Observation skill is all about noticing, not about being unnoticed. Use Stealth, Shadowing, Camoflage, or Savoir Faire, as appropropriate, for the latter.
I honestly thought this was the way Observation was meant to work. Sure, the skill description mentions it prevents people from noticing you're looking, but I can't find anywhere in Basic where Sense rolls make it obvious you're observing something - the only mention of being spotted doing so is if you suffer a Critical Failure on Observation (and I think the problem is more the "... and reacts poorly to the attention" bit than the "spots you" bit). Using Savoir-Faire to avoid being obvious is genius, however, and I think I'll steal that.
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Old 08-24-2022, 05:29 PM   #42
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Default Re: Your tiniest houserules

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Using Savoir-Faire to avoid being obvious is genius, however, and I think I'll steal that.
Agreed; social stealth is very important to me.
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Old 08-26-2022, 03:10 AM   #43
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Default Re: Your tiniest houserules

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Unaging costs 5 points, for Immunity to a rare threat.
I do the same thing. I've contemplated dropping it to perk level immunity but I like that it does have an actual cost (probably because the ability to just "wait for years" when that's a possible option for the players is one they like to take because of Unaging).

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Originally Posted by Celjabba View Post
Allowing Evaluate and Telegraphic attack to stack
I had no idea they didn't stack. Then again, I could count on one hand how many times I've seen Evaluate used and TA is probably triple that.
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While I do not think that GURPS is perfect I do think that it is more balanced than what I am likely to create by GM fiat.
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Old 08-26-2022, 04:11 AM   #44
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Default Re: Your tiniest houserules

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Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
I do the same thing. I've contemplated dropping it to perk level immunity but I like that it does have an actual cost (probably because the ability to just "wait for years" when that's a possible option for the players is one they like to take because of Unaging).



I had no idea they didn't stack. Then again, I could count on one hand how many times I've seen Evaluate used and TA is probably triple that.
I've never had a player use Evaluate, ever. There is no skill level at which one attack at skill + 1 is better than 2 attacks at skill + 0. Out of combat, I suppose there's a use for it but no one has bothered.
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Old 08-26-2022, 04:46 AM   #45
johndallman
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Default Re: Your tiniest houserules

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Originally Posted by corwyn View Post
I've never had a player use Evaluate, ever. There is no skill level at which one attack at skill + 1 is better than 2 attacks at skill + 0. Out of combat, I suppose there's a use for it but no one has bothered.
The only times I've ever seen it used were attacks by surprise. If you can sneak up on someone who has no idea there are hostiles around, taking a few seconds for Evaluate helps make sure you don't miss.
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Old 08-26-2022, 05:25 AM   #46
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Default Re: Your tiniest houserules

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Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
I do the same thing. I've contemplated dropping it to perk level immunity but I like that it does have an actual cost (probably because the ability to just "wait for years" when that's a possible option for the players is one they like to take because of Unaging).
Well ... here's my take. A basic trope of the system is that a Disadvantage that doesn't actually disadvantage a character is not worth points. I likewise feel that an Advantage that doesn't advantage a character isn't worth them either.

In the 44 years I've been running my campaign, I've advanced gametime to the point where the original Band Of Youngsters Going Off To Adventure (in 1978) would now be in late middle age. Which would be more relevant if any of them had been played as PCs more recently than 1989, but even so. There are probably very few campaigns where Unaging gives any kind of practical mechanical benefit at all, and probably none where it's worth a whopping 15 pts.
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Old 08-26-2022, 05:49 AM   #47
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Default Re: Your tiniest houserules

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Originally Posted by corwyn View Post
I've never had a player use Evaluate, ever. There is no skill level at which one attack at skill + 1 is better than 2 attacks at skill + 0. Out of combat, I suppose there's a use for it but no one has bothered.
It is nice for surprise/ambush, to help guarantee the first hit or to offset a targeted attack penalty.

It is also better than nothing when your target is not yet in range but is (slowly) moving toward you and you don't want to move yourself.

It is my goto default action when a player hesitate too long for his move, instead of "you do nothing"

It is occasionally useful when you really should avoid multiples attack or don't want missing with the next attack.
Such as
-when a weapon have a special effect that get used on any attack roll, pass or fail,
-with attacks that cost fatigue,
-when your next attack damage will be boosted somehow...
-when the enemy have a damage shield that damage you every time you attack, even if you miss or are parried/blocked

There are (rare) some case when it is better, odd wise.
For example, Skill 10, targeting chink in armor at -10, +4 from AOA or telegraphic :
one attack at skill 7 after 3 round of evaluate is better than 4 attacks at skill 4...

Last edited by Celjabba; 08-26-2022 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 08-26-2022, 09:09 AM   #48
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Default Re: Your tiniest houserules

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Originally Posted by Boge View Post
If you step on your turn, you cannot step on your defense. This keeps players from constantly retreating during defense.
An softer way to reduce that is to use one of Tbone's house rules: if you begin your action with a step into reach, your opponent gets +2 to defense.

This also gives a good reason to use Evaluate, because when there's some benefit to waiting, you might as well usefully wait.
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Last edited by RyanW; 08-26-2022 at 09:57 PM. Reason: +2, not +1
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Old 08-26-2022, 04:53 PM   #49
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Default Re: Your tiniest houserules

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Originally Posted by RGTraynor View Post
There are probably very few campaigns where Unaging gives any kind of practical mechanical benefit at all, and probably none where it's worth a whopping 15 pts.
Well not no benefit at all - aging attacks aren't [that] outlandish, and there are generational games with long time skips built into the premise (Pendragon campaigns are sort of famous for that). I'm sure somebody has run a game where the players have an ability to go somewhere with fast time to do something for a year and return without the world having moved on, where not having to be careful about how many times you do that almost certainly is worth the 15 points.

But yeah, mostly 5 points for Immunity to a rare hazard covers it, maybe bumped to 10 for the occasionally useful for something else. Still 15 is lots better than the original 60.
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Old 08-27-2022, 12:04 AM   #50
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Default Re: Your tiniest houserules

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Originally Posted by RGTraynor View Post
Well ... here's my take. A basic trope of the system is that a Disadvantage that doesn't actually disadvantage a character is not worth points. I likewise feel that an Advantage that doesn't advantage a character isn't worth them either.

In the 44 years I've been running my campaign, I've advanced gametime to the point where the original Band Of Youngsters Going Off To Adventure (in 1978) would now be in late middle age. Which would be more relevant if any of them had been played as PCs more recently than 1989, but even so. There are probably very few campaigns where Unaging gives any kind of practical mechanical benefit at all, and probably none where it's worth a whopping 15 pts.
I definitely agree with the sentiment. It's not worth 15pts. While I've very rarely used age damage (and namely, I call out that it'll happen), players have done things like take twenty years to do something or wait for something and intentionally took Unaging so they could plan to do that. To me that seems worth 5pts... at most. If players never were going to take advantage of being able to outwait someone for a decade or five (which I don't even always allow as an option), then "Immunity to Specific Threat" is a perfect perk for this. If neither is going to come up, then definitely no points.

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Originally Posted by corwyn View Post
I've never had a player use Evaluate, ever. There is no skill level at which one attack at skill + 1 is better than 2 attacks at skill + 0. Out of combat, I suppose there's a use for it but no one has bothered.
I actually assume that characters who know that combat will happen and it just hasn't happened yet are Evaluating. Something like arena fights are an obvious place, but another is when one side wants to avoid a fight and is trying to while knowing they can fail (such as trying to talk down a general).
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While I do not think that GURPS is perfect I do think that it is more balanced than what I am likely to create by GM fiat.

Last edited by kirbwarrior; 09-18-2022 at 02:45 AM. Reason: stupid typo
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