questions about Duplication

[Johnny Angel]

If I purchase the Duplication Advantage, do the duplicates have their own sets of actions or do I need to also buy advantages which allow acting multiple times during a turn?

I'm attempting to build a character who is (physically) a group of people which share one consciousness.

I have read through some older threads concerning this, but I am still uncertain about how a few things work.

[Refplace]

Each Duplicate is its own body and can do its own thing.
However they dont share the same mind, though when they recombine they share memories.
Buy Mindlink and Telesend for them to communicate as if they were one mind.

[Johnny Angel]

Thanks. I had thought so, but the description in Basic Set wasn't clear on whether or not duplicate came with more sets of actions by default.

I'm a bit rusty on the rules after not playing for a while, and I'm working on a character concept for a supers game.


I'm also trying to figure out a way to model a character who has alternate forms, but some of the stronger forms require some of the duplicates to merge together. For example, let's say a super is able to have 3 duplicates (for a total of 4 bodies.) The same super can also morph into a giant version of himself, but doing requires merging the duplicates together so as to gather enough self to construct the bigger version.

Similarly, is there a way to say that certain powers require multiple participants? For example, say that all of the duplicates can individually shock enemies with a touch; alternatively, two duplicates can channel their powers together to shoot a bolt of lightning (an alternate version of the shock touch attack).

[naloth]

Here's how I built such a character:
http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...1&postcount=46

He has utility, but might be overshadowed by other similar point value characters.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Johnny Angel

I'm also trying to figure out a way to model a character who has alternate forms, but some of the stronger forms require some of the duplicates to merge together. For example, let's say a super is able to have 3 duplicates (for a total of 4 bodies.) The same super can also morph into a giant version of himself, but doing requires merging the duplicates together so as to gather enough self to construct the bigger version.

I'd build this using Alternate Abilities, and just specify that the other abilities are only alternate to some of the duplicates, not all. So, using your giant example, you could take Duplication 3 (for four bodies total), and Growth 4 (Maximum Size Only) [40] and ST 50 (Size, -40%) [24]. It sounds like you want to have three duplicates merge in order to make the giant form, leaving one "normal size" body running around, so we need to make this alternate to only two levels of Duplication. That costs 70, meaning the Growth and ST are the cheaper abilities, so we divide them by 5, meaning you pay 105 points for the 3 levels of Duplication, and 13 points for the Growth+ST. If growing to giant size not only makes the "extra" bodies vanish, but also requires you to re-merge with the duplicates first, that's a further limitation on the Growth advantage - I'd call it a -10% Accessibility.

Originally Posted by Johnny Angel

Similarly, is there a way to say that certain powers require multiple participants? For example, say that all of the duplicates can individually shock enemies with a touch; alternatively, two duplicates can channel their powers together to shoot a bolt of lightning (an alternate version of the shock touch attack).

There's a couple ways of doing this. First, if you don't do it regularly or reliably, and it's always a bit of a stretch for your characters, you can use the rules in Powers for Stunts (pp. 170-174). Specifically, what you've described could be a combination of "Combining Powers" (to put multiple duplicates' powers together) and "Using Abilities at Default" (if the basic power they're using isn't an Innate Attack already).

The other option, if you want this to be a more reliable thing they do all the time, is to calculate the total power of the attack they have when all together, and then charge each duplicate only their "share" of the attack. So, for example, if the lightning bolt attack when all four bodies are present is an 8d Burning Attack with Surge [48 points], you'd divide that by 4, so you'd actually pay only 12 points. Normally, that would only be available if all four bodies were working together - if you wanted to make it "fractional", so that two bodies created a 4d lightning bolt or three created a 6d one, I'd put an extra +10% enhancement on the base ability (that is, the price before dividing by 4).

[whswhs]

The limitation Accessibility provides such examples as "only when Insubstantial" for abilities that work pretty much at the user's discretion, but do have a condition that must be met. It's -10%. You could probably buy the powers you're talking about with "only when not duplicated" for -10%; it's an equally easy condition to meet.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by naloth

He has utility, but might be overshadowed by other similar point value characters.

I've found that the "power level" of a Duplicating Character depends strongly on Tech Level and the relative potency of weapons versus Powers.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

I've found that the "power level" of a Duplicating Character depends strongly on Tech Level and the relative potency of weapons versus Powers.

Sure, equipment is definitely a force multiplier. The usefulness would depend on the ST or size required to use such items.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

I'd build this using Alternate Abilities, and just specify that the other abilities are only alternate to some of the duplicates, not all.<snip>

I may have to use/steal that idea.

The other option, if you want this to be a more reliable thing they do all the time, is to calculate the total power of the attack they have when all together, and then charge each duplicate only their "share" of the attack. So, for example, if the lightning bolt attack when all four bodies are present is an 8d Burning Attack with Surge [48 points], you'd divide that by 4, so you'd actually pay only 12 points. Normally, that would only be available if all four bodies were working together - if you wanted to make it "fractional", so that two bodies created a 4d lightning bolt or three created a 6d one, I'd put an extra +10% enhancement on the base ability (that is, the price before dividing by 4).

This, however, isn't something that sounds like a good precedent, especially if the "merged" body is getting a 8d attack for 1/4 the quarter of the cost on top of using AA for other abilities.

I'd force them to gestalt the way Powers works, or buy the full power as an AA to duplication like ST.

Rev has some houserules if you need to multiple powers from an AA set active as once. Here you may want to buy 2 or 3 of the set to be active at once.

[Johnny Angel]

Originally Posted by naloth

Here's how I built such a character:
http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...1&postcount=46

He has utility, but might be overshadowed by other similar point value characters.

I greatly appreciate sharing the link.

I'm okay with utility. The group with whom I will be gaming is already at 6-7 regularly present players, so they have most of the common comic bases covered. Even if they didn't, I don't mind not being the star of the show with this character; I'm happy to play a supporting role. (I'm also someone who actually enjoyed playing a D&D Bard from time to time.)

But, see below...

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

I'd build this using Alternate Abilities, and just specify that the other abilities are only alternate to some of the duplicates, not all. So, using your giant example, you could take Duplication 3 (for four bodies total), and Growth 4 (Maximum Size Only) [40] and ST 50 (Size, -40%) [24]. It sounds like you want to have three duplicates merge in order to make the giant form, leaving one "normal size" body running around, so we need to make this alternate to only two levels of Duplication. That costs 70, meaning the Growth and ST are the cheaper abilities, so we divide them by 5, meaning you pay 105 points for the 3 levels of Duplication, and 13 points for the Growth+ST. If growing to giant size not only makes the "extra" bodies vanish, but also requires you to re-merge with the duplicates first, that's a further limitation on the Growth advantage - I'd call it a -10% Accessibility.
.

Duplicate Duplications as alternate versions of one-another was my initial idea, but I was unsure if that made sense rules-wise. (Obviously, I'll need to speak to the GM.)

My gut feeling was something like the following list: Duplication 3 (Temporary Disadvantage: No Alternate Form Advantage); Duplication 2 (Temporary Disadvantage: No Giant Form); ...

Though, I was unsure if I needed to also do the reverse and buy conditional limitations on Alternate form.

The more complicated way I had considered doing it was to buy each set of powers (Duplication versions and Alternate Form w/ varying lists of forms) as Alternate Forms of the base character.

Originally Posted by whswhs

The limitation Accessibility provides such examples as "only when Insubstantial" for abilities that work pretty much at the user's discretion, but do have a condition that must be met. It's -10%. You could probably buy the powers you're talking about with "only when not duplicated" for -10%; it's an equally easy condition to meet.

That seems fair.

Originally Posted by evileeyore

I've found that the "power level" of a Duplicating Character depends strongly on Tech Level and the relative potency of weapons versus Powers.

Originally Posted by naloth

Sure, equipment is definitely a force multiplier. The usefulness would depend on the ST or size required to use such items.

As I said above, I don't mind being more of a supporting or utility role.

The vague beginnings of the character were a cross between the hive-mind of Star Trek's Borg and Mr. Meeseeks from Rick & Morty. More recently, after some of the discussion here and reading through the books, I considered adding a dash of Dr. Strange.

As I have considered the idea further (and spoken with the GM about what is going on with the game), my rough draft of the character is that he exists partially outside of time. Part of the current story involves alternate dimensions and timelines.

The working rough draft is that, when "normal" time was disrupted, it somehow created a link between all possible versions of this character, and their knowledge partially coalesced into one "prime" version of the character. If his alternate versions from other times and worlds could be seen as a network, the "prime" version (which I would play) would be akin to a space-time router which connects them all together. (This would include Mindlink and Telesend.)

Psychometry and the various advantages involved in "reading" the future or past of an area or object are powers I have considered, but I am waiting to speak to the GM because I am unsure if having a character with that level of knowledge would be disruptive to running the game. I would explain this by saying he is mentally/magically scanning the experiences of all his possible selves to see if any of them had encountered the situation.

This is also my backup plan if trying to do the morphing and combined powers turns out to be overly-complicated.



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As far as the giant form idea, I was trying to come up with what the characters powers might have been before gaining access to other selves. With that in mind, I imagined what having access to more selves might allow.

I currently have a few possible routes in mind. One involved being able to change his own body in some manner, so having more bodies seemed to make sense for being able to manipulate the body more.

Alternatively, I had considered that some common link between all versions of himself might be that he always exists as a similar profession. In one reality/time, he might be a fantasy cleric; in another, a surgeon; in yet another, perhaps he's the medical officer on a space opera spacecraft. When all versions mentally merged, this granted uncanny excellence in that particular field (as well as access to magic).