10-21-2022, 09:53 AM | #21 |
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
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Re: Adapting Third Edition Templates To Fourth Edition
And you sometimes see the term knight used as a broad "cultural translation" for heavy cavalry going back an extra thousand years before that - which isn't entirely unjustified, as the cost of maintaining a warhorse means such a warrior is almost always a landlord or a sworn officer thereof (i.e. the equivalent of a European knight).
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RyanW - Actually one normal sized guy in three tiny trenchcoats. |
10-21-2022, 10:17 AM | #22 |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
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Re: Adapting Third Edition Templates To Fourth Edition
Oh, good, RyanW weighing in now lets me avoid a double post as I address some of the things maximara and DavidJohnston2 were discussing.
They (and anyone who wishes) can continue to debate whether the minimum ST requirements in Basic Set were properly converted from Third Edition to Fourth Edition, but I'm using this to again stress how I believe one ought to approach selecting traits for these templates. There might be enough to their discussion to make their discussion of minimum STs worth its own thread, assuming they haven't already settled things and I just didn't notice. ^^' I do not think I am overstating that a "Heroic Knight" ought to be stronger than the average human, meaning the template ought to have at least ST 11. After that, one ought to consider the actual traits one has given the template. In this case, you will notice the Lance Skill is included among the Primary Skills. According to page 272 of the Basic Set, the regular ol' Lance requires a minimum ST of 12. Considering the other two listed Weapon Skills, Axe/Mace and Broadsword, nothing requires more than ST 12. It is probably worth noting that a "regular" mace (as opposed to the Small Mace) also requires a minimum ST of 12. The reason I am focusing on the lance, though, is your knight could just use a small mace and still be a mace-wielding knight. Similarly, while not a requirement, ST 12 granting 1 more point of swing damage, 1 more Hit Point, and better Lifting ST is also desirable, and affirms that ST 12 is the way to go. ST 13 is tempting, but I believe that it elevates the "baseline" for a heroic knight a little too high, plus the template is quite pricey already! I'll finish by stating, again, that I realized all of this in hindsight; when I started on these conversions over a year ago, I simply copied the ST 12 from the original, Third Edition version of the template. XP
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My GURPS Fourth Edition library consists of Basic Set: Characters, Basic Set: Campaigns, Martial Arts, Powers, Powers: Enhanced Senses, Power-Ups 1: Imbuements, Power-Ups 2: Perks, Power-Ups 3: Talents, Power-Ups 4: Enhancements, Power-Ups 6: Quirks, Power-Ups 8: Limitations, Powers, Social Engineering, Supers, Template Toolkit 1: Characters, Template Toolkit 2: Races, one issue of Pyramid (3/83) a.k.a. Alternate GURPS IV, GURPS Classic Rogues, and GURPS Classic Warriors. Most of which was provided through the generosity of others. Thanks! :) Last edited by Otaku; 10-21-2022 at 10:21 AM. |
10-23-2022, 02:38 PM | #23 |
Pike's Pique
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio U.S.A.
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Re: Adapting Third Edition Templates To Fourth Edition
When I attempt to convert a Third edition character into 4th edition GURPS I usually take the original character point and multgiply it by 1.5 and see if that works out.
My reasoning is that 3rd edition GURPS had a default of "100 points" for most starting out characters and 4th edition seems to suugest "150 points" as the norm or usual for starting characters. - Ed C.
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Take me out to the black Tell them I ain't comin' back Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me.... A vote for charity: http://s3.silent-tower.org/TheKlingonVotes/index.html |
10-23-2022, 02:47 PM | #24 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
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Re: Adapting Third Edition Templates To Fourth Edition
The third edition definitely did recommend that characters start at 100 character points. Frequently.
The fourth edition does not assume a "standard" number of starting points. Instead, it freely suggests different amounts based on the nature of any given campaign. Because fourth-edition costs are generally kinda-sorta about one and a half times third-edition costs, people are tempted to take the third-edition standard starting amount of 100, multiply it by 1.5, and suggest this is some kind of standard amount of starting points for the fourth edition. It is not. The fourth edition does not have a standard starting total. |
10-23-2022, 09:36 PM | #25 | |
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Re: Adapting Third Edition Templates To Fourth Edition
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10-24-2022, 03:33 AM | #26 | |
On Notice
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
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Re: Adapting Third Edition Templates To Fourth Edition
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==4e== *Feeble: (below 25 points): Small children, mindless thralls, and zombies *Average (25-50 points): Ordinary folk. Point range of GURPS Historical Folks *Competent (50-75 points): Athletes, cops, wealthy gentry and upper *Exceptional (75-100 points): Star athletes, seasoned cops *Heroic (100-200 points): People at the realistic pinnacle of physical, mental, or social achievement. *Larger-than-Life (200-300 points): Leading roles in kung fu movies, fantasy novels, etc; GURPS Dungeon Fantasy characters are 250 points. *Legendary (300-500 points): Protagonists of epic poems and folklore. Monster Hunters are 400 points. *Superhuman (500-1,000 points): Those who have transcended humanity and powerful creatures of fantasy. *Godlike (over 1,000 points): True demigods ==Classic== *Below-average: 15 points or less *Average: 25 points *Above-average: 50 points *Experienced: 75 points *Hero material: 100 points *Full-fledged hero: 150 points *Truly outstanding: 200 points *Superhuman: 300 points Or more
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10-24-2022, 09:27 PM | #27 | |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
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Re: Adapting Third Edition Templates To Fourth Edition
Nice to see some more folks weighing in.
Some updates. First, I have been trying to read more of GURPS Martial Arts for Fourth Edition. The short version is I got it a little while ago, started reading it, got busy, and forgot about it. >.> I am jumping around, which is a bit risky I know. As has already been pointed out, there's a nice Warrior Template there, which can be built into a lot of the templates I'm trying to adapt. For now, I simply plan to create something that wouldn't require relying (or relying as much) on GURPS Martial Arts. Though I certainly would want to use the more advanced and/or detailed rules from that book, I suspect that I wouldn't want to do so until the rest of the group (and myself!) were more familiar with them. So... let me get back to that first template, the example template from GURPS Classic Warriors, the Heroic Knight. I may be barking up the wrong tree, but I want to make it even more generic. This might be utterly, utterly foolish of me, and I don't think I have to ask you all to tell me that if it is the case. I decided to create a more baseline "Knight" template, with an additional Lens to make them into the more impressive (and higher priced) "Heroic Knight": Quote:
I have left the Advantages untouched, but you'll notice the Disadvantages now only contain the required Duty. Again, we're no longer dealing with a "heroic" knight, but just a "regular" knight. Most (if not all) of the list of Disadvantages to choose from skewed heroic, so I chose to set them aside for a Heroic Lens. Wrestling has been added as a Primary Skill; the other Primary Skills retain the same level as before, but at a higher point cost relative to previous iterations. Unless I blew the math, this is no more expensive and/or less than having a higher DX. Secondary Skills now only contains Brawling. I am uncertain if it is important enough to be listed as such, but I decided that Leadership and Tactics leaned more into the Heroic side of things. I don't know if it is Kosher for the Background Skills found on Templates, but lowering Intelligence while spending an extra point each on Amoury and Heraldry also was a net positive; I left Savoir-Faire at just 1 CP, as Skill 10 still seemed adequate.
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My GURPS Fourth Edition library consists of Basic Set: Characters, Basic Set: Campaigns, Martial Arts, Powers, Powers: Enhanced Senses, Power-Ups 1: Imbuements, Power-Ups 2: Perks, Power-Ups 3: Talents, Power-Ups 4: Enhancements, Power-Ups 6: Quirks, Power-Ups 8: Limitations, Powers, Social Engineering, Supers, Template Toolkit 1: Characters, Template Toolkit 2: Races, one issue of Pyramid (3/83) a.k.a. Alternate GURPS IV, GURPS Classic Rogues, and GURPS Classic Warriors. Most of which was provided through the generosity of others. Thanks! :) Last edited by Otaku; 11-06-2022 at 04:41 PM. Reason: Revised template again, think I found something that works. |
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10-25-2022, 01:12 PM | #28 | ||||||
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
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Re: Adapting Third Edition Templates To Fourth Edition
Please pardon the double post, but I made time to work on the templates and things suddenly just started "clicking". I was able to get all the Knight Template Lenses to the same 30 point cost. On top of the base Knight template, that means the total comes to 155 without having maxed out Disadvantages and Quirks. There was a different cost to this, however; I beefed up what the existing lenses gave, and there are some Skills that could be higher or lower if I wasn't trying to hit 30 CP on the dot.
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I am wondering if Independent Income should be worked in, for a Heroic Knight who doesn't have to spend much time managing their estate. To the point I debated creating an Adventuring Knight template instead of or in addition to the above Heroic one. Quote:
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My GURPS Fourth Edition library consists of Basic Set: Characters, Basic Set: Campaigns, Martial Arts, Powers, Powers: Enhanced Senses, Power-Ups 1: Imbuements, Power-Ups 2: Perks, Power-Ups 3: Talents, Power-Ups 4: Enhancements, Power-Ups 6: Quirks, Power-Ups 8: Limitations, Powers, Social Engineering, Supers, Template Toolkit 1: Characters, Template Toolkit 2: Races, one issue of Pyramid (3/83) a.k.a. Alternate GURPS IV, GURPS Classic Rogues, and GURPS Classic Warriors. Most of which was provided through the generosity of others. Thanks! :) Last edited by Otaku; 11-06-2022 at 03:01 PM. Reason: Noticed some questionable wording... |
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Tags |
conversion, fourth edition, templates, third edition |
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