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Old 07-07-2008, 09:56 AM   #181
robertsconley
 
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Default Re: Does GURPS need original-setting world books?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksmith
Rules always sold better than settings, and adventures never sold well.
Maybe because as good as SJ Games rules are their adventure are way lower in quality compared to the state of the art in D&D.

Sure most GURPS adventure are written well but the majority read like mini sourcebooks rather than something ready to run like a D&D module. There is no equivalent to the Sunless Citadel, Keep on the Borderlands, or Keep on the Shadowfell for GURPS.
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Old 07-07-2008, 10:07 AM   #182
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Default Re: Does GURPS need original-setting world books?

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Originally Posted by Collective_Restraint
1. Where can I find adventure modules ?
2. Is there a Monster Manual/Beastiary, etc. ?
Answer: same place as before. Honestly, converting things to GURPS is trivial; and in many cases, has already been done by other gamers who will be delighted to share their results.

For a high fantasy setting, we already have Forgotten Realms and Lord of the Rings. For a sci-fi setting we already have Traveller, Star Trek, and Star Wars. For a horror setting we already have Cthulhu, White Wolf. Although I would love to see SJGames publish canonical, original-setting, world books--because I know they would be of superior quality--it's very likely they would not compete well with what's already out there.

However, I would be very interested to see what would happen if they marketed strongly a slick, hardback version of Dungeon Fantasy, specifically targeted at first time GURPS buyers.

Last edited by Captain Joy; 07-07-2008 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 07-07-2008, 10:26 AM   #183
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Default Re: Does GURPS need original-setting world books?

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Originally Posted by Captain Joy
Answer: same place as before. Honestly, converting things to GURPS is trivial ; and in many cases, has already been done by other gamers who will be delighted to share their results.
Internet resources affect only a small fraction of the market. It helps but doesn't close the gap.

The task is not trivial for novice GMs and sinks GURPS in comparison to it's competitors. For players coming from D&D the GURPS Core System is not ready to run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Joy
it's very likely they would not compete well with what's already out there.
The point of a classic fantasy setting is not to compete with Forgotten Realms or any number of myriad of other settings but rather to provide a base platform that players of the world most popular RPG can build from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Joy
However, I would be very interested to see what would happen if they marketed strongly a slick, hardback version of Dungeon Fantasy, specifically targeted at first time GURPS buyers
They need to add a monster manual and a magic system. Dungeon Fantasy as it stands now is not ready to run. Also what is needed is a rulebook with a focus on the fantasy genre.
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Old 07-07-2008, 10:49 AM   #184
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Default Re: Does GURPS need original-setting world books?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertsconley
Internet resources affect only a small fraction of the market. It helps but doesn't close the gap.

The task is not trivial for novice GMs and sinks GURPS in comparison to it's competitors. For players coming from D&D the GURPS Core System is not ready to run.
And htis is one of the main reason i'm reluctent to run a GURPS game,the amount of time getting everything together vs the time that could be spent playing isn't worth it to me or my group, yes i know about all those aids out there,but that only goes so far. And when we do play GURPS it only happens because i restriced it so very tight by only using templets and pre-approved list of everything.
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Old 07-07-2008, 11:16 AM   #185
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Default Re: Does GURPS need original-setting world books?

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Originally Posted by Phil Masters
Oddly enough, I'd say that they were fairly mainstream. It's just that it's 1930s/40s mainstream.

They'd both have looked quite a bit less non-standard if they'd appeared back in the early days of Fritz Leiber and Sprague de Camp. Sure, they don't align exactly to anything either of those two examples published - and the lack of fantasy gods is a bit unusual for any era - but I contend that a golden-age-of-pulp-magazines audience wouldn't have blinked at either. They only look weird in the context of the modern fantasy boom. In fact, they probably only look weird in a post-D&D market.
I don't know about that. I can see some comparisons to de Camp. An argument can be made for resemblances to The Compleat Enchanter. But Yrth most clearly resembles The Warlock In Spite of Himself. So... mainstream what? Yrth does look a lot like a number of yarn stories by Harrison, de Camp, Heinlein, and so forth. Even back then, it would have been a strange fit.

You have:
- Medieval recreation and reenactment as a culture
- Tolkien races
- Other races
- A science fictional backstory
- An alternate history of Earth religions
- A monster manual by Poul Anderson
- Bathed peasants
- Detailed political histories
- Ambiguity about the nature of religion

Sword of Shannara meets The Warlock In Spite of Himself?
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Old 07-07-2008, 01:11 PM   #186
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Default Re: Does GURPS need original-setting world books?

How about a happy little computer program that converts between RPG systems? In with AD&D out with GURPS.
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Old 07-07-2008, 03:31 PM   #187
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Default Re: Does GURPS need original-setting world books?

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SJG should listen to this guy.
Thanks. *blush* I'm wondering if one of SJG's folks will post to tell me why I'm wrong - which I could be, as I'd be the first to admit. I don't think I am (the last two businesses I did the new business development/marketing for went from nought to around $4-5 million turnover per annum in three years apiece), but without access to confidential sales/revenue/profit-margin statistics and a sit-down with the SJG folks who license material I can't be certain sure.

Still...I'm available for hire.

Regards, C
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:28 PM   #188
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Default Re: Does GURPS need original-setting world books?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertsconley
Internet resources affect only a small fraction of the market. It helps but doesn't close the gap.
True; I concede.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertsconley
The task is not trivial for novice GMs and sinks GURPS in comparison to it's competitors. For players coming from D&D the GURPS Core System is not ready to run.
Also true; I concede once again. However, I do think that any veteran GM of any other games system should be able to run adventures from other game systems in GURPS after running Caraven to Ein Arris. But, for GMs new to rpgs (and busy gamers in general), I agree--a few more canned adventures would surely be welcome. I'm disappointed more GURPS GMs haven't properly written up their adventures and submitted them as e23 downloads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertsconley
They need to add a monster manual and a magic system. Dungeon Fantasy as it stands now is not ready to run. Also what is needed is a rulebook with a focus on the fantasy genre.
A 4th ed. Fantasy Bestiary doesn't sound unreasonable, but my guess is such a product will end up being released as a series of small e23 pdfs instead. In my uninformed opinion (I don't own GURPS Magic.) The standard GURPS Magic system is plenty useable out of the box.

Maybe a nice hardback Dungeon Fantasy that included a "Powered-By-GURPS" level rules set would foot the bill?
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Old 07-07-2008, 08:19 PM   #189
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Default Re: Does GURPS need original-setting world books?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Masters
Oddly enough, I'd say that they were fairly mainstream. It's just that it's 1930s/40s mainstream.

They'd both have looked quite a bit less non-standard if they'd appeared back in the early days of Fritz Leiber and Sprague de Camp. Sure, they don't align exactly to anything either of those two examples published - and the lack of fantasy gods is a bit unusual for any era - but I contend that a golden-age-of-pulp-magazines audience wouldn't have blinked at either. They only look weird in the context of the modern fantasy boom. In fact, they probably only look weird in a post-D&D market.
Very good point. Also, some of the oddities of the setting in the context of post-D&D fantasy - including it being an alternative Earth where people from Earth can arrive - were standard tropes of book fantasy for a long time (Narnia, John Carter of Mars, Worm Ouroboroughs (sort of), Alice, Wizard of Oz, etc. While Conan's Hyborian Aged is loosely "our own world in a forgotten era". The presently dominant paradigm of a completely disconnected fantasy world, that is nevertheles an echo of the middle ages or classical period (rather than alien planet with its own flora and fauna such as Burroughs's Mars), appears to be the result of the blending ofTolkien, Lieber, Moorcock, and D&D
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Old 07-07-2008, 08:54 PM   #190
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Default Re: Does GURPS need original-setting world books?

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Originally Posted by Agemegos
If settings do make rain, SJG would do really well by getting third parties to make the small buckets, and make its revenues out of the "gaming OS". No applications vendor made as much money out of PCs as Micro$oft made selling DOS and Windows.
Alternatively, no operating system vendor has made as much money out of PCs as Microsoft has made selling products in the Office family. But, anyway, it doesn't matter: the gaming market isn't the computer market, and SJG (or anyone else) isn't in the position to do what Microsoft did in the early 80s, unless Wizards decides to contract out for the core engine for D&D/5e on terms that don't restrict the engine-makers sales of the same engine outside of D&D; no one is going to duplicate Microsoft's dominance either in the Office suite or Operating System markets in the RPG market.
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