Game of Thrones [Req.Social Advantages]

[SonofJohn]

Maybe one could simplify the reputations drastically, by simulating Enemies by Enemies and not reputations. Ned would get only two or three reputation...

Ned Stark

Status 6

Multimillionaire 2 ( alone Winterfell justifies this)

Warhero +2 rebell lords

Man of Honor +2

Lord Hedgehog -1 (he is so pricky he should choose the hedgehog as his coat of arms)

Enemies(Lannisters)

Enemies( minor Houses from Roberts Rebellion)

Allies( King Robert)

Allies( Tully)

Depends(children)

Robb Stark

Status 6

Multimillionaire 2 ( alone Winterfell justifies this)

Young Wolf +2 (skilled commander)

Man of Honor +2

Allies(Tullys)

Enemies(Lannisters)

Depends(little siblings)

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Yep, just because the Lannisters are so much richer than everyone else, doesn't mean the other Kings aren't all rich multimillionaires too.

Just the value of the empty land which they can give to a new bannerman is a substantial asset, even in the desolate north.

I tend to agree with that.

Pretty much all the great houses are quite wealthy, although much of that wealth is 'fixed' in the from of lands, quarries, woodlots, castles, and other non-portable forms. We may presume that there are rents paid, and revenues gathered from a number of sources.

Have you guys considered using independent income? It would seem to fit in cases where a character has a cash inflow that isn't dependent on his position in the government.

Noble titles may be reflected by rank and status, yes. They may also be part of a job. I'm talking about using a jobs table, here, guys. Warden of the West is a job. Hand of the King is a Job. Master of Coin is a job. You get may hired because of your family connections (quite common, but not always the case), your personal abilities and deeds, and the friends you make at court. You perform tasks for the King. You are paid in some fashion and you get bennies. (Being paid in land, rents, horses, or whatever is still being paid.)If you do very well, you may be rewarded beyond the usual pay and beneifts of your job. If you mess up badly, you may be fired, If you mess up really badly, you may get executed or at least sent to the Wall.

Those titles that are merely inherited names are courtesy rank.

Westeros doesn't strike me as 'feudal.' It just has realistic patron-client relationships, that's all. :)

Ned Stark was a government worker (a titled, wealthy, badass gov't worker).

Bannermen may have Duty and Patron. Of course, some men take their oaths more seriously than others. :)

[Opellulo]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

Noble titles may be reflected by rank and status, yes. They may also be part of a job. I'm talking about using a jobs table, here, guys. Warden of the West is a job. Hand of the King is a Job. Master of Coin is a job.

I Agree; in the Serie the only character that shows outstanding levels of indipendant income is Tyrion Lannister: unless his job is going randomly around testing all the places to get drunk and/or laid.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by Opellulo

I Agree; in the Serie the only character that shows outstanding levels of indipendant income is Tyrion Lannister: unless his job is going randomly around testing all the places to get drunk and/or laid.

Yeah, the Lannisters have a lot of wealth from their gold mines.

There's no indication that any king gave them those mines in return for any services, or that the king could realistically take them away. The mines are private property, not pay for a job. Take away Tywin's position as Warden of the West and the Lannisters would sti still filthy rich. They were still rich after he stopped being the Hand of the King, after all. (In olden days, the Lannisters were actually kings of the Westerlands.)

Most land in Westeros seems to be privately owned. It seems that many nobles have at least modest levels of independent income. They live as rentiers and gentlemen farmers. They can hire bailiffs, reeves, and so on to manage properties and just collect the income. They don't have to do that work themselves. Nobles who aren't heads of houses may get allowances.

[combatmedic]

He doesn't own the North, so it's not wealth in GURPS terms. He owns a really big castle and a lot of land. He is 'Lord of Winterfell'- meaning the guy who owns Winterfell. That title is really just a piece of inherited property, but since it isn't tangible and can't be freely sold or given away, it's best treated as part of status.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

Ned Stark was a government worker (a titled, wealthy, badass gov't worker).

Nothing suggest that being Hand of the King or Warden of the North had any meaningful effect on Eddard Stark's incomes. No one paid him and there are not indications that he would have accepted a salary.

His income came from his lands. Did so before he was Warden of the North, before he became Hand of the King and would continue to do so for the Stark in Winterfell as long as the smallfolk living on Stark land continued to pay tax or rent to them.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Nothing suggest that being Hand of the King or Warden of the North had any meaningful effect on Eddard Stark's incomes. No one paid him and there are not indications that he would have accepted a salary.

His income came from his lands. Did so before he was Warden of the North, before he became Hand of the King and would continue to do so for the Stark in Winterfell as long as the smallfolk living on Stark land continued to pay tax or rent to them.

An offical job may have no cash salary, but be compensated in other tangible ways ( apartments, the use of stables, servants, various perks, etc).

[combatmedic]

I am not suggesting that he got most of his wealth from his government job. No, he's independently wealthy. He did , however, hold a government job. The Hand of the King is basically the King's Prime Minister, sometime regent, and general assistant. The job has real legal powers, specific responsibilities, a definite place in the government hierarchy, etc. It doesn't matter if it actually pays a lot of cash or not- it's still a government job. The material bennies may be in non-cash from, like having apartments in the Red Tower.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

An offical job may have no cash salary, but be compensated in other tangible ways ( apartments, the use of stables, servants, various perks, etc).

Yes, but these benefits would seem to be almost irrelevant to Eddard Stark, who started the series with more than enough wealth for his purposes and did not seem to gain any wealth from his appointment as the King's Hand. He gained power and influence, not wealth.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Yes, but these benefits would seem to be almost irrelevant to Eddard Stark, who started the series with more than enough wealth for his purposes and did not seem to gain any wealth from his appointment as the King's Hand. He gained power and influence, not wealth.

Are you saying that Hand of the King is not a government job with specific powers and responsibilities?

I never suggested that Ned got much wealth out of it, only that the title comes with an actual job, and is a not hereditary piece of property.

If you are confused, you may need to scroll up and re-read my earlier posts. I said that some titles, like Lord of Winterfell, are hereditary property, and others, like Hand of the King, come with jobs.