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Old 07-30-2009, 07:31 PM   #31
Nemi3e
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NYC
Default Re: Gurps 3ed rev

I bribed my group with food.

But Trooper, how do you manage that? My friends are pretty open minded, but they have a limit on how many campaigns they are willing to play at a time.

They aren't too interested in one-offs either. I recruited them to run a quick battle, and after I asked them do they want their characters meet up as planed?

They responded that next week they want to continue right off from where they were.
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Old 07-30-2009, 09:15 PM   #32
trooper6
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Default Re: Gurps 3ed rev

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Originally Posted by Nemi3e View Post
But Trooper, how do you manage that? My friends are pretty open minded, but they have a limit on how many campaigns they are willing to play at a time.

They aren't too interested in one-offs either. I recruited them to run a quick battle, and after I asked them do they want their characters meet up as planed?

They responded that next week they want to continue right off from where they were.
There are different ways of organizing diversity. Here are two different models my groups have used (Note: both of these groups had multiple people who wanted to GM, so we had to do something to be fair).

Group 1: We met every Thursday after work. We had three main GMs, then a few folks who wanted to do one offs here or there. GM1 would run about an adventure (usually 4-5 weeks) in Vampire (until we got to a good resting point). GM2 would run about 4-5 weeks of GURPS Espionage, GM3 would run 4-5 weeks of Star Wars d6. If someone wanted to run a on shot it would probably be slotted in about here. Then we would go back to GM1's Vampire game for 4-5 weeks, then Espionage 4-5 weeks, then Star Wars 4-5, then a different one off. Rinse and Repeat.
Games Played: GURPS Espionage, Vampire, Star Wars d6--then converted to GURPS, GURPS Swashbucklers, Stormbringer, GURPS Old West, D&D Ravenloft, Villains and Vigilantes, Top Secret, RIFTS...I can't even remember all the things we did, including little one offs here and there.

Group 2: We met every Sunday. In this group there were two games running simultaneously but every other week. Week 1, Game 1. Week 2, Game 2. Week 3, Game 1. Week 4, Game 2. And so on. There was an understanding that each game should probably run about one short TV season...say 12-14 sessions (that is 6-7 months). When that season ended, another GM who wanted to would step in for 6-7 months. The games were staggered so both games didn't start/end at the same time. If everybody wanted, when one of the earlier GM's was back up they could run a second season of their earlier game.
Games Played: D&D...a couple different campaigns, GURPS Interstellar Wars, Trinity, Mutants and Masterminds, Star Wars d20, Mutants and Masterminds: Heroes High School...and a couple others. There weren't as many different games because each season was 6-7 months long.

The advantages of both set ups was that they both allowed for the GMs to have some off time so they didn't burn out and had lots of prep time to do wild fun things like props or whatever. Both methods also allowed for diversity of gaming, for multiple people to get their GM thirst quenched, and for long running campaigns...note I was with Group 1 for about 4 years, and Group 2 for about 7 years. Also having games with "end" points made people more willing to commit--even if the campaigns got regularly "renewed."

Special note Group 1: Group 1 allowed for more rapid turnaround. So as a GM/player, you generally didn't have to wait more than 3 months to get back to any given campaign. Your time with each campaign was a little shorter at each go, but it was concentrated and you came back quickly.

Special note Group 2: Group 2 had a larger number of players, including people who hard a hard time committing to gaming every week. So for those players who couldn't commit to every week, they would just play in only one of the concurrent campaigns. When I was GMing Traveller: Interstellar Wars on my stint, I said the game was going to be small and intense, and I capped the crew at 5. Concurrently was 8 player Epic D&D game.

whswhs runs 3 games concurrently each meeting once per month for about 2 years a piece.

Once I experienced groups that ran in this way...where we got to do different things...but still get to spend a lot of time with our characters and tell epic stories...I have a hard time going back to the old model...which usually was: one GM runs until they burn out or the players get fatigued and burned out. Then maybe someone else steps up until burn out...or maybe there is a month or so break until the one GM starts running again...and in that month the group may or may not survive.
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Old 07-31-2009, 12:00 AM   #33
Nemi3e
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Default Re: Gurps 3ed rev

Ah-ha, everything becomes clear. And now that I think about it, we were originally going to go at it like group 1 (1 new GM, 1 experienced GM, and then me wanting to). But we lost half the players and the campaign fizzled, the other one never got started up again; so we never got to organize or really play.

Now things are regrouping around me, but we'll definitely loose at least one player if someone else GMs, since it will undoubtedly be DnD. (One guy hates DnD, the other won't play with more than one n00b GM)
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Old 07-31-2009, 12:14 AM   #34
trooper6
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Default Re: Gurps 3ed rev

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemi3e View Post
Ah-ha, everything becomes clear. And now that I think about it, we were originally going to go at it like group 1 (1 new GM, 1 experienced GM, and then me wanting to). But we lost half the players and the campaign fizzled, the other one never got started up again; so we never got to organize or really play.

Now things are regrouping around me, but we'll definitely loose at least one player if someone else GMs, since it will undoubtedly be DnD. (One guy hates DnD, the other won't play with more than one n00b GM)
If one player hates D&D and won't play it--which is fair. Then you may want to go with the Group 2 option. I would only play in a D&D game in my Group 2 when I was promised that it would be an RP-welcome game (that was not that often true...but I kept falling for it). Anyway, this way the one player could play every other week, he could sit out the D&D game and people who want to play D&D would have that outlet.

With the group 2 option you only have 2 GM's up at one time...so your resistant to noob GM players shouldn't be too intolerant.

Also, recruit more players! -- Look for people who haven't gamed before and bring in new blood!
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Old 07-31-2009, 04:28 AM   #35
Nemi3e
 
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Default Re: Gurps 3ed rev

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Originally Posted by trooper6 View Post
If one player hates D&D and won't play it--which is fair. Then you may want to go with the Group 2 option.
Thinking about that, the trend I'm detecting so far is a like for long sequences though, for immersion and memory purposes. We might be able to pull it off in a month to month basis but not week to week.

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Originally Posted by trooper6 View Post
I would only play in a D&D game in my Group 2 when I was promised that it would be an RP-welcome game (that was not that often true...but I kept falling for it). Anyway, this way the one player could play every other week, he could sit out the D&D game and people who want to play D&D would have that outlet.
One DnDer has "always been interested in GURPS, it seems like an interesting system. I just never had anyone to play with." This guy is awesome, and tells dirty jokes. I think he still has his original AD&D books somewhere. He's the guy who can only put up with one noob GM at a time, and wants to get his old campaign restarted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper6 View Post
With the group 2 option you only have 2 GM's up at one time...so your resistant to noob GM players shouldn't be too intolerant.
Eh, there's only one, and he's the GM of the other game, so if it's him and me we should be golden.

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Originally Posted by trooper6 View Post
Also, recruit more players! -- Look for people who haven't gamed before and bring in new blood!
Even better. The guy who hates DnD? He hated RPGs in general because of DnD. It bored and annoyed him. Then, during CharGen, he got very excited and into it. He even mentioned something about wanting to play it "at camp."

So we might have a new recruiter, huzzah!

A derailment but to avoid cluttering up the board: Sensing Magic. I haven't been able to find any definite rules on it (though I might not be looking hard enough.) But one of my players is on her way to becoming a sharp shooter, knowing the power creep of magic as people gain more CPs, but could she potentially use this to target people a la Zen Archery? (Most guns so far are magic matchlocks since wheellocks are very new and there's no mass production yet.)
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Old 08-01-2009, 05:23 PM   #36
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Default Re: Gurps 3ed rev

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Originally Posted by Dave_67 View Post
I almost came to regret liking GURPS after one of our regular GMs explained 4e to a former player as "Think of Champions, that's how it's more like now."
Hear, hear! It's for this reason that I cringe whenever someone suggests replacing the spell system with GURPS Powers: GURPS needs to be less like Hero System, not more like it.

I actually do use 4e rather than 3e; but on the whole, I find myself wishing that the system hadn't been changed quite as much as it was.
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Old 08-02-2009, 07:09 PM   #37
Not another shrubbery
 
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Default Re: Gurps 3ed rev

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Originally Posted by dataweaver
GURPS needs to be less like Hero System, not more like it.
Got a link to a further explanation, or do you care to expound further upon that here? I'd be interested in reading what you think they shouldn't have changed.

AFAIC, 4E was a step forward. What things that look like they might have been stolen from the HERO model seem mostly for the better. In fact, there are times that I wish they had gone a bit further :|
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Old 08-02-2009, 11:18 PM   #38
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Default Re: Gurps 3ed rev

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Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
Got a link to a further explanation, or do you care to expound further upon that here? I'd be interested in reading what you think they shouldn't have changed.
I'm not sure that I can address this in simple terms, as it isn't any one thing by itself. I think, though, that the core of my concern can be summed up here.

IMHO, the single biggest flaw that Hero System has is that it encourages players to think in terms of point efficiency first, often to the extent that character concept becomes mere window dressing for clever build strategies and cost optimizations. This is something that I've been seeing in the GURPS community since the release of 4e, and especially since the release of GURPS Powers; and much as like the added versatility that 4e provides, I can't help but feel that it has come at a cost.

Quote:
AFAIC, 4E was a step forward. What things that look like they might have been stolen from the HERO model seem mostly for the better. In fact, there are times that I wish they had gone a bit further :|
Turning the tables: Got a link to a further explanation, or do you care to expound further upon that here? :) I, too, am curious as to where you think GURPS would be better off being more like Hero System.
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:22 AM   #39
The Final Door
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Default Re: Gurps 3ed rev

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
Got a link to a further explanation, or do you care to expound further upon that here? I'd be interested in reading what you think they shouldn't have changed.

AFAIC, 4E was a step forward. What things that look like they might have been stolen from the HERO model seem mostly for the better. In fact, there are times that I wish they had gone a bit further :|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
I'm not sure that I can address this in simple terms, as it isn't any one thing by itself. I think, though, that the core of my concern can be summed up here.

Turning the tables: Got a link to a further explanation, or do you care to expound further upon that here? :) I, too, am curious as to where you think GURPS would be better off being more like Hero System.
Providing a bigger table that can spin like a top, I would love to see the two of you do a whole two-person panel discussion on that. In fact, I would love for it to be split into a new thread, having read Dataweavers reference already! I might even get the courage to contribute, though knowing very little about Hero!
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Old 08-03-2009, 08:25 PM   #40
Not another shrubbery
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Gurps 3ed rev

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Originally Posted by dataweaver
Turning the tables: Got a link to a further explanation, or do you care to expound further upon that here? :) I, too, am curious as to where you think GURPS would be better off being more like Hero System.
Very clever :) Since you asked nicely:

The thing I find most attractive about the HERO system is the way it all fits together. Not to say that I agree with the way everything is implemented, but the tools given generally seem to fit together cleanly. GURPS, in contrast, sometimes seems to have been put together by committee, with extra mechanisms doing the work that one could do. A lot of things were streamlined in 4E, but I wish it could have gone further in integrating Magic completely; abandoning the old 'spells as skills' model and doing a complete rewrite with spells as powers. Ideally, this would have been done with an eye toward keeping those 'powers' similar to their old versions.

Thanks for the response, BTW.

"It's turtles all the way down."
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