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Old 09-19-2023, 08:19 AM   #1
hal
 
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Default A half dwarf and a Half Elf walk into a bar...

A half Dwarf male and a Half Elf female walk into a bar. The get drunk. Mother nature with her bag of tricks, gives them both the Morning after surprise they didn't see coming.

What will the end result of that special night be?
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Old 09-19-2023, 09:07 AM   #2
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Default Re: A half dwarf and a Half Elf walk into a bar...

If you're asking for the genetics of the offspring, it could be a mix of human, elf, and dwarf in any ratio. Children get half the DNA of their parents, but you don't know which half. Statistically, they're likely to be about half human, one-quarter dwarf, and one-quarter elf, but that's not an absolute.

This also depends on the exact nature of elf and dwarf genetics. Do they have DNA? Is it compatible with human DNA (must be somewhat, since there are half-dwarves and half-elves)? Is there even DNA in the fantasy setting? Are humans, elves, and dwarves the same species? Genus? Do they have a common ancestor? How far back is that common ancestor?
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Old 09-19-2023, 10:23 AM   #3
hal
 
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Default Re: A half dwarf and a Half Elf walk into a bar...

Genetics between races opens up a real UGLY problem. Mate a horse with a donkey and you end up with a mule. If you mate that mule with any thing other than a donkey - and there is no chance of a fertile offspring of those two combinations. 62 Chromosomes for Donkeys, 63 for Hinneys/mules (depending on which species the mother is determines whether it is a Hinney or a Mule) and 64 chromosomes for a Horse - makes for fertile half-breeds essentially an imposibility.

Now we get into the fantasy races and discuss Half-Elves and/or Half-Dwarves and things get murkier. If the supposition is that the races are fertile and inter-fertile, then we're going down one road. If the half-breed off-spring are not fertile, than a Half-Elf and a Half-Dwarf can't mate to produce anything. Short of using magic to force a hybridization, we're stuck...

I just wondered if Dungeon Fantasy ever went down that road or not. If it hasn't, I'd have to wonder why - seeing as we half-breeds all around.

;)

So, can a Half Dwarf and a Half Elf have viable children outside of magic? If the answer is no, then having a player character with that kind of a background proves to be an interesting conundrum. Since the game world I'm using is ATLANTIS: THE SECOND AGE, a world that has Andamen (Alchemical constructs that are bodies of humans but heads of animals) - it wouldn't necessarily be an impossibility to use a little alchemical help to merge two non-fertile members to produce off spring. It does however, result in said offspring to likely be infertile.

All in all, just wondering if any other rules were posted, or any other GM's who have had to deal with that question.
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Old 09-19-2023, 10:44 AM   #4
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Default Re: A half dwarf and a Half Elf walk into a bar...

I'm pretty sure the game rules have not dwelt on the scientific taxonomy or genetics of fantasy races, particularly because many fantasy traditions have scientifically ludicrous outcomes, like Zeus turning himself in a swan and raping Leda, leading to her laying two eggs and hatching two children. A half-dwarf and a half-elf having mixed-race children is totally believable next to stuff like that.

Just do what you want; there's no correct answer, and no "official" rules answer.
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Old 09-19-2023, 11:46 AM   #5
malloyd
 
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Default Re: A half dwarf and a Half Elf walk into a bar...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
If you're asking for the genetics of the offspring, it could be a mix of human, elf, and dwarf in any ratio. Children get half the DNA of their parents, but you don't know which half. Statistically, they're likely to be about half human, one-quarter dwarf, and one-quarter elf, but that's not an absolute.
And indeed the outcome might depend on the exact ratio you did get even in a realistic setting. All human genes (admittedly highly unlikely) and you get a human, too many of both elf and dwarf and you get a failure of the fertilized egg to survive first cell division.

I personally think "half" races were a questionable idea from the start, and would be inclined to no offspring.

Another rather logical approach is to assume the reason so many things can interbreed with humans is that humans are *already* a crossbreed mixture of everything else in the setting, and the more different "non-human" parents you have, the closer you get to human average.
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Old 09-19-2023, 01:38 PM   #6
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Default Re: A half dwarf and a Half Elf walk into a bar...

If you have "half" races as an identifiable thing, and they actually are something distinct as opposed to a spectrum, there's presumably some factor keeping them distinct, so that same thing might apply in this case. If there's no such factor, the result is 25% dwarf, 25% elf, 50% other (are both of those half-human?).
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Old 09-20-2023, 03:53 AM   #7
sir_pudding
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Default Re: A half dwarf and a Half Elf walk into a bar...

Trick question. Half-dwarves are sterile (Dark Sun, Timothy B. Brown and Troy Denning, TSR Games, 1991).
:)

Last edited by sir_pudding; 09-20-2023 at 09:25 AM.
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Old 09-20-2023, 06:54 AM   #8
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Default Re: A half dwarf and a Half Elf walk into a bar...

Yep, the Muls.

Half-Elves are from Tolkien, right? Although half-"nature spirit" is probably as old as religion.
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Old 09-25-2023, 09:59 PM   #9
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: A half dwarf and a Half Elf walk into a bar...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hal View Post
A half Dwarf male and a Half Elf female walk into a bar. The get drunk. Mother nature with her bag of tricks, gives them both the Morning after surprise they didn't see coming.

What will the end result of that special night be?
I've never seen a half-dwarf template and I've seen two half-elf templates so that complicates matters. What it might look like is a shorter than average human, with a longer than average lifespan, goes bald early but has a very dark blue beard. Might or might not have magic aptitude. There are a lot of other options of course.
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Old 09-26-2023, 12:50 PM   #10
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Default Re: A half dwarf and a Half Elf walk into a bar...

I made a template for Athasian half-dwarfs, or "muls".

50 points
Basic Attributes: ST +1 [10]; HT +3 [30].
Secondary Characteristics: Basic Speed +0.25 [5]; Size Modifier 0 [0].
Advantages: Very Fit [15].
Disadvantages: Selfish (12) [-5]; Social Stigma (Second-Hand Citizen) [-5].
Features: Sterile
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