06-16-2020, 08:29 PM | #11 | |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Can you aim a gun you can't see?
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That sounds reasonable enough.
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06-16-2020, 08:34 PM | #12 |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cowtown, Canada
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Re: Can you aim a gun you can't see?
Some fiber optic sights use room light or daylight to duct light into the aiming dot so that the system doesn't need batteries and an active light source. If the gun is in darkness then the aiming dot won't be illuminated since the fiber pickup won't have any ambient light to duct into the sight system.
Note you can also aim a weapon with an under barrel flashlight by centering the circle of light around the target, which doesn't require aiming down the sights. It is sort of a poor-man's laser sight (poor in that it has a much more limited range to be effective as an aiming mechanism than a laser).
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06-16-2020, 09:13 PM | #13 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: Can you aim a gun you can't see?
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Unless perhaps we envision mages / mutants holding up their hands to use their fingers like sights? Or using the tip of a staff as a sight? |
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06-17-2020, 04:37 AM | #14 |
Join Date: Feb 2011
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Re: Can you aim a gun you can't see?
Snap firing wouldn't be a problem. Actually aiming an invisible gun definitely seems difficult... though I do think you could benifit to a small degree from taking the time to line up your shot.
I would say an effective acc of no more than +1, representing the ability to effectively take a more careful, deliberate snap-shot even without looking down sights. I agree that in the case of total darkness with an illuminated target, almost all sights will function effectively perfectly. They're usually designed with that in mind. |
06-17-2020, 04:52 AM | #15 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: Can you aim a gun you can't see?
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06-17-2020, 05:31 AM | #16 |
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Luxembourg
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Re: Can you aim a gun you can't see?
I would
-reduce the acc of an invisible weapon with build-in sight by half (round down) or to acc 3, whichever is worse -discount any acc from separate targeting system that are invisible -only allow adding the (reduced) acc of an invisible weapon if you are familiar with the weapon model -the first shot on a specific target with an invisible weapon will have it's (reduced) acc capped at +1, unless you have a weapon bond Last edited by Celjabba; 06-17-2020 at 07:53 AM. |
06-17-2020, 07:44 AM | #17 | |
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
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Re: Can you aim a gun you can't see?
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Also ballistics are a thing and increased ACC of modern firearms over round shot muskets should still be effective. Of note read the section under Aiming, p. B364 Add the weapon’s Accuracy (Acc) to your skill, plus any bonuses for targeting systems used: sights, targeting computers, etc. And later in that section... Your combined bonus from all targeting systems (scopes, sights, computers, etc.) cannot exceed the weapon’s base Accuracy. Also read the Sighted and Unsighted Shooting sections of GURPS Tactical Shooting. So I'd allow base ACC but no Aiming bonus or use of sights..
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06-17-2020, 11:11 AM | #18 |
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Re: Can you aim a gun you can't see?
Based on own experience on the lighted target while self in dark.
In some cases you might have to roll some sort of roll to bring the weapon to shooting stance, to ready it, or to draw it. Mostly drawing and pointing a weapon in a muscle memory thing and thus "automatic" if you have done it enough. If you have familiarity penalties these rolls should definitely be rolled in that situation. If you have red dot sight->normal situation. If you have non night sights -> depends a bit on the actual type of sight, but you can still approximately point the weapon and might get some clue from the sights. This would definitely require a the perception roll above with penalties. But still the weapon profile and grip would give some bonuses. I would likely go with halve the total bonus from aiming and round down. If you have night sights->It is a question of a relative brightness of the target and the night sights. It would range from above "non night sights" to a situation where your night sights are bright enough in relation to allow normal aiming. If you have a scope->pretty close to normal situation. This would likely require a roll to get the sight picture immediately, on fail add a second to the required aim time. Once you have the target aimed, you would get the accuracy normally. Also for scopes, as they gather light, they would also help if the target is in a low light(not total darkness) situation by reducing the penalty for that. As for invisible weapons.. Any shooting where you want to hit anything beyond couple of meters uses sights. You cannot see the sights on a invisible weapon and thus could not aim.. I believe that though that if you practiced enough with an invisible weapon you could get good enough idea based on your grip and such to qualify for aiming with acc 0(thus additional seconds of aiming give bonus). The optimal solution would of course be to make the rest of the weapon invisible but leave sights visible getting the best of both worlds.. as the sights by themselves are so small as to be not seen by others except when something specially draws attention to them. And in any case once you take shooting stance and start aiming it is kind of obvious... |
06-17-2020, 11:37 AM | #19 | |
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: Can you aim a gun you can't see?
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So, the 6 is certainly something other than a scope that also isn't the iron sights that aren't there. If +2 is for "Fine", leaving +4 for "just the barrel", then the G3A3 version isn't getting any bonus for its iron sights, either, so taking them away hardly hurts. Certainly you could sight down a barrel with no sights and get some benefit -- and if the weapon were invisible, that's not possible. On the other hand, an expert shooter could probably do a better-than-nothing job just by holding the rifle in the grip familiar to them, just aiming it by feel. For a game cinematic enough to admit invisible weapons, I'd be tempted to make up a houserule something along the lines of using the number of CP invested in the Guns skill counted as a bonus only to cancel out the invisibility penalty, whether that's -10 or -Acc. (The high-DX, barely-trained natural wonder doesn't benefit as much, because they don't have the kind of experience that tells you when it just feels right. And I could always use some more reasons that high-CP low-stat builds aren't dumb compared to the low-CP high-stat version of the same skill level.) |
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06-17-2020, 11:59 AM | #20 | |
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Luxembourg
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Re: Can you aim a gun you can't see?
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there is the fact that throwing weapons, innate attacks, staff sling and various other ranged weapon can be aimed and get bonus acc without sights of any kind. You can aim with a throwing axe, I would guess you could do so even if it was invisible, so why not with a rifle ? The question is, what kind of acc penalty do you get if the weapon innate targeting help (sight, ...) are invisible. Tactical shooting seem to say "zero acc if no sight" but that seem harsh. If I have an invisible blunderbuss and an invisible sniper rifle, I would guess I am more likely to hit a target (after a zeroing shot or two) with the sniper rifle. Add-on targeting help are off (except for a laser pointer, I imagine), but what part of the +acc from a rifle is the innate accuracy, and what part is the built-in sight ? Last edited by Celjabba; 06-17-2020 at 12:03 PM. |
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aiming, tactical shooting |
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