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Old 05-24-2020, 11:57 PM   #1
DoctorJerk
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Default Running a challenging, Lovecraftian campaign with skittish players.

Sorry for the incoming wall of text, but if you have advice, you probably don't need to read anything beyond this first block for what you have to be helpful.

Hey guys, new GM here. Anyone have any tips on running challenging campaigns? I've a fairly good handle on the rules and balance and can keep things going at a good pace while providing flavorful narration, but my players (who are all also decent-to-good GMs across a broad spectrum of GM-ing experience) are just not used to facing or generating actual challenges given my experience in all of their games. Most of their 'boss' NPCs or situations that were supposed to be tough are generally defeated with minimal planning or a couple decent rolls. They seem to enjoy it, but I'm usually left pretty underwhelmed by the experience, so I thought I'd toss them something new and more intense when it came time for me to run a game.

They're running through a dungeon crawl campaign set in a Lovecraftian horror-style dungeon (more of a visual theme than a literary one, in this case) with some pretty powerful ~800 point characters to give them a good amount of freedom to flesh out a fun concept. Due to the nature of the setting, they all basically have Unkillable 3 so even if they die, it's not a big deal. They know this place is supposed to be terrifying, but I've made it clear to them that the adventure is far from impossible. I have two somewhat problematic players, one that's iffy, and two that are great. One of the problematic players is pretty smart and plays such characters well, but he's a bit of a min-maxer and doesn't seem to take well to his Gary Stu mage characters being outperformed, outshone, or outsmarted in any way, especially by the enemy, even if said enemy should be capable of it. The other problem player is just really skittish and kind of ditzy, but not dumb. The iffy player isn't too hard to hook, but he also doesn't deal with defeat or set-backs very well. The other two are great; they're creative, role play pretty well, actively engage the world, etc., etc.,—everything a GM could want, but they're also not used to facing something tough.

Last session, they entered the dungeon after a bit of an intro and got into a fight in which they killed an enemy combatant that made the rest of the enemies retreat, then spent the next two hours pretty much dithering in the first chamber of the dungeon because they were too nervous to actually explore. The enemies aren't sessile punching bags and can perform feats of strength and dexterity to make ordinary mortals quiver, but it's nothing these characters can't defeat with a bit of teamwork, which they did—with bad teamwork.

I don't know how to get these players to come out of their shells beyond holding their hands and fudging every roll if it makes them look good. After the enemy displayed a bit of power with a mildly impressive parry and one decent attack (which was the only attack the enemy managed to land because the target made an obviously poor tactical decision) The Gary Stu mage and the iffy player were very clearly phoning it in while everyone else seemed to be too anxious to do much beyond take potshots, but seemed to be having some fun at least.

I asked for opinions after the game and basically had to reiterate several times: YES, this dungeon is supposed to be scary and you might die if you do something really stupid, NO, you're not helpless worms on a hook, and you all just proved it in the first fight.

That said, what can I do to get everyone to pick up the pace, take minor risks, make this kind of challenge more engaging and fun?
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Old 05-25-2020, 12:43 AM   #2
johndallman
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default Re: Running a challenging, Lovecraftian campaign with skittish players.

What's their in-character motivation for venturing into this really scary place? Loot? Saving the world? Something else? If they don't have a purpose, it's hardly surprising that they're intimidated by apparent risks.
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Old 05-25-2020, 01:32 AM   #3
DoctorJerk
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Default Re: Running a challenging, Lovecraftian campaign with skittish players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
What's their in-character motivation for venturing into this really scary place? Loot? Saving the world? Something else? If they don't have a purpose, it's hardly surprising that they're intimidated by apparent risks.
Literally all of the above. Their eldritch enemy is truly trying to save existence from Something Worse but the PCs (and indeed most life) won't survive their methods. All of the gods of the multiverse are opposed to this method, and the PCs all agree that these eldritch horrors won't succeed in time since literally every other cosmic being in existence says so. If they succeed in disabling the Thing at the Core of the Dungeon, they can save their own existence and keep any of the numerous powerful artifacts they'd find to use on another adventure or just sell for tons of cash.

In short, the PCs die by not taking action, or they succeed and walk back to their comfortable lives richer and more powerful than they've ever been.

EDIT: Those PCs that have emotional backstories with dependents or enemies have also been offered assistance in dealing with their problems so there's more than material wealth on offer as a reward and the players know that.

Last edited by DoctorJerk; 05-25-2020 at 01:37 AM.
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Old 05-25-2020, 09:46 AM   #4
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Running a challenging, Lovecraftian campaign with skittish players.

Why are they skittish? With 800 CP, I would not be surprised if they are Unfazeable as well as Unkillable, so they literally have nothing to fear. Of course, true Lovecraftian entities have attacks with Side Effects that negate even cosmic levels of Unfazeable and Unkillable, so they would be right to be skittish. For example:

Soul-Searing Emenation: Toxic Attack 1d (Accessibility, Sapient Creatures Only, -10%; Area Effect 10, +500%; Cosmic, Irresistable Attack, +300%; Emanation, -20%; Selective Effect, +20%; Side Effect, Removes Unfazeable (Cosmic), -1/3 HP, +69%; Side Effect, Removes Unkillable 3 (Cosmic), -2/3 HP, +225%) [48].

The above ability would remove the advantages that would normally protect them from death and madness.
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Old 05-25-2020, 11:04 AM   #5
DoctorJerk
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Default Re: Running a challenging, Lovecraftian campaign with skittish players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Why are they skittish? With 800 CP, I would not be surprised if they are Unfazeable as well as Unkillable, so they literally have nothing to fear. Of course, true Lovecraftian entities have attacks with Side Effects that negate even cosmic levels of Unfazeable and Unkillable, so they would be right to be skittish. For example:

Soul-Searing Emenation: Toxic Attack 1d (Accessibility, Sapient Creatures Only, -10%; Area Effect 10, +500%; Cosmic, Irresistable Attack, +300%; Emanation, -20%; Selective Effect, +20%; Side Effect, Removes Unfazeable (Cosmic), -1/3 HP, +69%; Side Effect, Removes Unkillable 3 (Cosmic), -2/3 HP, +225%) [48].

The above ability would remove the advantages that would normally protect them from death and madness.
Good question. For all practical purposes, these PCs can't have their unkillable status disabled or revoked. If they die, all the players have the opportunity to 'respawn' as a version of themselves, somewhere in a safe city, that'd be significantly more suited to accomplish their mission. I did this knowing that if I didn't, they'd play it with pace-crippling caution or be too frustrated with the prospect/event of character death to have fun and yet...

I even let them know that if I TPK them, their next attempt would be as fresh of an experience as possible without invalidating the choices they made on the first run or the changes they make to any characters that 'die'.

Besides all that, while no one took Unkillable (not necessary anyway) nor Unfazeable, every single player took either greed, overconfidence, curious, impulsiveness, high pain threshold, or a combination of all of those, so there's plenty of motivation/headstrong attitude to go around, backed by considerable power. I give the players the opportunity to role play their disads before I enforce control rolls, but I only do so when they're overtly neglecting to actually role play and are just metagaming.
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Old 05-25-2020, 11:33 AM   #6
Flyndaran
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
Default Re: Running a challenging, Lovecraftian campaign with skittish players.

It kind of sounds like they want Super Smash Bros., but you're GM-ing Dark Souls.
No matter what you try, it may be impossible to make it a fun style for all of them.

(Though your game does sound super fun for me and my partner.)
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Old 05-25-2020, 12:24 PM   #7
DoctorJerk
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Default Re: Running a challenging, Lovecraftian campaign with skittish players.

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
It kind of sounds like they want Super Smash Bros., but you're GM-ing Dark Souls.
No matter what you try, it may be impossible to make it a fun style for all of them.

(Though your game does sound super fun for me and my partner.)
I'm afraid you're too correct. The squad is basically running a Bloodborne chalice dungeon with more flavor and more accessible, unambiguous lore to entice exploration. But since none of them are familiar with much more than incidental fan art, none of them have a clue or can pick up on my many homages and borrowed features so it's all pretty fresh for them, which may be why they seem to be roleplaying Cowardice [-10], like any newbie to a Fromsoft game.
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