Hit Points...to be, or not to be?

[Daigoro]

Normally for frag damage, a character in one hex is subject to shrapnel from an explosion in another, let's say adjacent, hex. In an internal explosion, the character is now absorbing hits from all of the possible hex facings of the explosion, so I'd at least start by saying 6x frag damage, or 8x if you include up and down facings.

[Plane]

auto-max from lying on a grenade kinda reminds me of that "you got stop-thrust by spear? walk on through, stick it out your back!" approach in GURPS Martial Arts as a counter to Obstruction as that also results in automatically doing max damage

which isn't actually a downside if max damage was what attacker already rolled, I guess? not sure if meta-wise char would be aware that's the case before making "keep on walking" choice

In terms of a grenade, you definitely wouldn't know (it hasn't exploded yet) unless perhaps you had precog and know you'd take the full 6 damage on a 1d grenade so you might as well jump atop it and protect others.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

Normally for frag damage, a character in one hex is subject to shrapnel from an explosion in another, let's say adjacent, hex. In an internal explosion, the character is now absorbing hits from all of the possible hex facings of the explosion, so I'd at least start by saying 6x frag damage, or 8x if you include up and down facings.

Ah, but the hexes in the next ring out are also subject to fragments, and with the same chance of taking hits as the adjacent ones, so surely we should count these as well, for at least another seven automatic fragment hits?

The thing is, internal explosions are devastating, but not that devastating, and GURPS says even people taking direct hits from shells only automatically take one hit. In fact, if read literally, it says direct hits only cause one fragment hit, because when it discusses rolling to hit with fragments it says "The fragments attack everyone else in the area at skill 15. [emphasis mine]

Now, I think that's a little silly, so I rule that direct hits guarantee a fragment hit, and then roll for fragment hits for the struck target along with everyone else. For internal explosions I do the same, but the automatic fragment counts as a vitals hit in the same way that the blast does (the others don't).

Also, I don't count internal explosions in locations like limbs as vitals hits (and thus don't for fragments either). I haven't found that this makes having an explosion inside something insufficiently dangerous.

[Black Leviathan]

The throat isn't a human off-button. I've had some pretty nasty gashes to my throat. I've known a lot of people with long nasty scars across their throat from industrial accidents. Because of two big arterial veins it can be a dangerous place to be wounded, but it's not necessarily deadly. Even an arterial injury to the throat isn't a death sentence.

This throat-cutting example is largely just something I've seen relating to D&D's gross hit point acceleration. GURPS has some steep risk to a cut to the throat, presuming this guy wants to really kill our hostage he's going all out for damage and chances are his knife is fine quality. Even with average ST that's 2ish points of damage +2, +1, doubled to the throat. Your victim is likely going to lose consciousness very quickly and could die instantly. If you're ready on the scene with a first aid kit you have a fairly good chance of saving their life if Medicine is decent in the world, but not guaranteed.

Your chances are fair of attacking that cutthroat and saving the day, and that's ok in a game about heroes. That victim might not be super happy about you jumping the cutthroat if they survive and may think the characters are psychopaths.

[mr beer]

Very much not an expert but anecdotally I heard that the trope of cutting a sentries' throat is considered a high-risk, low-reward type of move in the special forces world. As in they don't.

But...if you do have do it for whatever reason, you don't slash them once and then stand back to watch the sentry expire, you grab them from behind and saw rapidly back-and-forth until the knife meets their spine, then hang on until they stop convulsing.

So in this context a knife to the throat is not considered an instant kill or even a certain kill by any means.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by mr beer

Very much not an expert but anecdotally I heard that the trope of cutting a sentries' throat is considered a high-risk, low-reward type of move in the special forces world. As in they don't.

But...if you do have do it for whatever reason, you don't slash them once and then stand back to watch the sentry expire, you grab them from behind and saw rapidly back-and-forth until the knife meets their spine, then hang on until they stop convulsing.

So in this context a knife to the throat is not considered an instant kill or even a certain kill by any means.

To be fair, that's partly because sentry removal by knife is trying to be quiet. Even if you immediately dealt a deadly wound you've failed if they scream, fire a shot, or otherwise attract attention.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

To be fair, that's partly because sentry removal by knife is trying to be quiet. Even if you immediately dealt a deadly wound you've failed if they scream, fire a shot, or otherwise attract attention.

Well, that ties in to 'instant' kill.

I would note that traditional throat-slitting is actually not a very good choice for rapid incapacitation, because the important things in the front of the neck are the trachea and the jugular vein. Now, the trachea is necessary for breathing and if opened might get clogged with blood (causing the victim to drown in their own blood), and the jugular is a major vein so if opened too far the victim bleeds to death (and you can't tourniquet the neck), but neither of those things is super fast (unfortunately, better targets, such as the brain, upper spine, and carotid arteries, tend to be protected by helmets).

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Well, that ties in to 'instant' kill.

I would note that traditional throat-slitting is actually not a very good choice for rapid incapacitation, because the important things in the front of the neck are the trachea and the jugular vein. Now, the trachea is necessary for breathing and if opened might get clogged with blood (causing the victim to drown in their own blood), and the jugular is a major vein so if opened too far the victim bleeds to death (and you can't tourniquet the neck), but neither of those things is super fast (unfortunately, better targets, such as the brain, upper spine, and carotid arteries, tend to be protected by helmets).

"Instant kill" might be a misnomer in this case; the idea is the victim is beyond medical help, or at a high risk of being beyond medical help. We also get into the whole "average" person versus the "average" adventurer. Possibly even real-world soldier. The few seconds (rounds) you have between your throat being slit and it more or less incapacitating you are probably filled by you being in shock than by you doing something useful.

That's just me armchair... er... keyboard quarterbacking things, without practical real-world experience or knowledge in the matter. Which ties into the odd paradox; the more realistic the world, the less I expect someone with a slit throat to power through the injury, whether in the "They survived a slit throat!" to "They used their last moments to accomplish something." manner. On the other hand, in the more cinematic settings, where characters are typically more durable, a slit throat is typically played as guaranteed death. Sometimes instant, sometimes not. So... if it isn't as lethal IRL, then maybe it is a setting switch?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Otaku

"Instant kill" might be a misnomer in this case; the idea is the victim is beyond medical help, or at a high risk of being beyond medical help. We also get into the whole "average" person versus the "average" adventurer. Possibly even real-world soldier. The few seconds (rounds) you have between your throat being slit and it more or less incapacitating you are probably filled by you being in shock than by you doing something useful.

I'm talking minutes. Most of which won't be terribly useful or well-aimed activity, but someone thrashing around and making lots of noise is still pretty unhelpful for sentry removal.

[thrash]

Originally Posted by Anthony

I would note that traditional throat-slitting is actually not a very good choice for rapid incapacitation, because the important things in the front of the neck are the trachea and the jugular vein.

LTC Applegate (Kill or Get Killed) recommended a thrust into the victim's kidney while simultaneously covering the mouth and nose with the off hand. Only after a few seconds of this is the knife removed, the head lifted by the off hand, and the throat cut. He does say:

The throat area is vulnerable to either the thrust or the slash, the thrust being most effective when driven into the hollow at the base of the throat just below the Adam’s apple. A thrust there, into the jugular vein, or a slash on either side of the neck, cutting the arteries which furnish the blood to the brain, results in extreme loss of blood and death in a very short time.

I would imagine that opening both arteries would result in almost instant hypoxia, rendering any coherent response extremely difficult. I don't know how much less severe it would be if only one artery was slashed, however.