05-05-2021, 08:34 PM | #11 | |
Join Date: Apr 2020
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Re: GURPS Overhaul: Combat Skills, Take 3
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Oh, and the idea worked. In the shield wall I used the axe to hook the opposing shield and bring it down. The guy with the spear behind me then bonked him in the face. Based off of a historical account of Viking fighting. :) - Shane |
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05-05-2021, 10:57 PM | #12 |
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: New Zealand.
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Re: GURPS Overhaul: Combat Skills, Take 3
That last post reminded me of an idea that I've had knocking around for a while.
Rather than dividing up combat effectiveness by weapon type, instead divide it up by fighting style. A knight would therefore be skilled at fighting in a manner appropriate to their training and penalized when fighting in another style, say penalized when less equipped in armour, or having difficulty when reduced to a single one handed weapon. These are not the best examples, but I am sure I have a couple of players who would adapt to the idea.
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Waiting for inspiration to strike...... And spending too much time thinking about farming for RPGs Contributor to Citadel at Nordvörn |
05-05-2021, 11:12 PM | #13 |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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Re: GURPS Overhaul: Combat Skills, Take 3
Something like the OP would be fine. Familiarity penalties can handle the rapier fencer who picks up a no-dachi or the punk with a switchblade who grabs a gladius.
I don't have time to dig up the last few threads where I talked about this, but I think there is room to distinguish between blade and staff weapon skills which focus on strette guardie (point-in-line) with the weapon extended, and others. The first kind would have defensive bonuses like GURPS 4e Fencing and Staff skill but penalties to cutting damage and expose the weapon to beats and grabs and the weapon hand to strikes unless it has a Complex Hilt for extra G$. Which to use could be a mandatory specialization and you could buy a perk to know both.
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05-06-2021, 07:16 AM | #14 | |||
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: GURPS Overhaul: Combat Skills, Take 3
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Of course, the switchblade-punk who grabs a gladius isn't in very good shape - he's gone from either Brawling or Knife to Sword, which is a pretty hefty penalty (-6 or -7, respectively). Unless you interpret the gladius as a GURPS Long Knife, in which case he can use his Brawling/Knife skill to use it at Reach C (but is heavily penalized at Reach 1). Quote:
*It would also be more difficult to Parry strikes from heavier weapons as well, perhaps using 70% of the character's BL. That's typically an edge case (RAW, this would just mean that a normal character could Parry up to a 14 lb weapon instead of a 20 lb one), although I could see houserules that was more nuanced where this could come into play earlier (such as something like -1 to Parry for every 3 points by which the attacking weapon's MinST exceed's the defender's ST).
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05-06-2021, 07:59 AM | #15 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Re: GURPS Overhaul: Combat Skills, Take 3
While interesting, I really don't like having to look up or memorize a bunch of defaults on top of everything else. I'd much rather have a few skills that have (standard) defaults to each other then use techniques inside groups. It would look something like:
Striking (DX/A). Striking at your character's reach. -2 penalty for +1 reach (kick, wild swing). May alternatively use a weapon at -4* with the same reach. Grappling (DX/A). As above, but using a weapon. Melee Weapon (DX/A). Must specialize by weapon category (Axe/Mace, Sword, Flail, etc). Additional weapon types are a -4*. Ranged Weapon (DX/A). Must specialize by weapon category (Pistol, Shotgun, Rifle, etc). Additional weapon types are at -4*. * Technique (Tech/A): Weapon cross training. You can buy off the penalty for using an alternate category as a technique (each point in this technique reduces the penalty by 1). Cannot exceed base skill. Compared to the regular system, you have the similar diversity but it's cheaper to cross train and much simpler to remember. The hypothetical Knight that trains up Melee (Sword) at DX+6 would get to default any other weapon at -4. Compared to the current system that's not unreasonable as he already could defaults quite a few things (club, knife, fencing weapon) or just take a few weapon adaptation perks (axe/mace -> sword) for emergencies. He could also buy off the penalties for using an Axe by -1 for 1 point until it's even to his sword level (which would be a replacement for Weapon Adaptation that's only 1 point). |
05-06-2021, 08:51 AM | #16 |
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Kentucky, USA
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Re: GURPS Overhaul: Combat Skills, Take 3
I don't mind having dozens or hundreds of skills as long as the divisions make sense and the skill isn't trying to be a style. A bunch of current melee weapon skills have features that would be better off as style perks or direct attributes of the weapon.
"Melee Weapon" and "Ranged Weapon" get a flat no from me. Both those categories have clear internal divisions and if I wanted simplification at that level, I would play something other than GURPS.
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05-06-2021, 09:05 AM | #17 | |
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Re: GURPS Overhaul: Combat Skills, Take 3
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Each ranged or melee category could be written out like: Axe/Mace (DX/A), Sword (DX/A), Flail (DX/A), Whip (DX/A), Knife (DX/A), etc where you can use a technique (instead of Weapon Adaption) to buy off a -4 cross training penalty. It's exactly the same system with just a different naming system. The level of granularity doesn't change by turning individual skills into specializations. |
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05-06-2021, 09:19 AM | #18 | |
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Kentucky, USA
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Re: GURPS Overhaul: Combat Skills, Take 3
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I find this level of skill combination frankly ridiculous. Just take a BANG! skill, it's what they are for.
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05-06-2021, 09:36 AM | #19 | ||
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Re: GURPS Overhaul: Combat Skills, Take 3
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Conversely, if you spend lots of time learning to lead targets and prepare shots wouldn't you see some benefit to using a pistol, sling or flamethrower? It seem equally ridiculous that to have a longbow master defaults just as badly someone that's never fired anything. IME a -4 seems pretty severe, but it could different (-5 or so) instead and also limited to buying off the penalty (perhaps secondary skills can only get to -1). Really we're just discussing how much to charge, not the effect. Quote:
It sounds like you're hung up on the naming in a different fashion. We're discussing how much is fair to charge. The actual character sheet notation can be worked out in quite a few different ways. What I proposed above would hardly change the point value of current characters unless they have both a high skill level in one skill and also raise other weapons that would be entirely different skills without current defaults. |
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05-06-2021, 10:21 AM | #20 |
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Kentucky, USA
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Re: GURPS Overhaul: Combat Skills, Take 3
Currently there are 27 melee weapon skills (unless I missed some) so any sort of reduction/recombination will see significant gains in point efficiency.
Currently kicking myself because I can't find my "melee weapon skill relationship" sheet I worked out. I had everything grouped by "default proximity" and it worked out to 6 large blobs that became my suggested condensed skills. Though, on consideration, 1 Handed Balanced and 1 Handed Unbalanced may be close enough to just merge into 1 Handed Weapons. My hammer and manchette feel different but I'm not sure its enough of a difference be justify separate skills. I stand firm on the others, however. Now, if I am just being stubborn and getting hung up on naming conventions, then using your convention I think my proposal would be translated as: Melee Weapon (1 Handed) Melee Weapon (2 Handed Balanced) Melee Weapon (2 Handed Unbalanced) Melee Weapon (Reach Weapons) I do think Whip, Garotte, Net and Shield don't have enough overlap to be grouped under a master skill like the above. Garrote is such an oddball I'm never quite satisfied no matter where I put it.
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