Enhancements to Magery

[mcv]

From this thread:

Originally Posted by Molokh

Magery, Cosmic: Taking the Long-Range enhancement affects range penalties for spells themselves!

How about Magery, Cosmic, Ignores No Mana Zones?

Sounds appropriate for Cosmic, however, I don't like enhancements and limitations on Magery influencing all spells. I see it quite often here, but I think it's wrong. Magery isn't your spells, it's an advantage that boosts/enables your spells. But in a high mana zone, you can cast spells even without Magery. Enhancements and limitations on Magery should only influence the boosting/enabling effects of Magery itself, and not the spells that are boosted by Magery.

Comments? Opinions? Solutions?

[RedMattis]

Comments: I agree

Magery is basically a talent (+ magic detection) that allows you to use magic.
...and I don't think anyone would add the Ranged, +40% enhancement to their Artist talent.

[CattyNebulart]

I'd say that it sounds appropriate, though you could make an argument that mana enhancer, perhaps with a limitation: only in low or no mana zones, would fit better.

Personally I prefer the enchancement to magery: Cosmic; ignores mana level, which deprives the user of the benefit from high mana areas, beause that feels more right to me, the user is drawing the power for spells from a deeper level, and is not affected by the eb and flow of mana on the surface, but that creates huge problems when someone takes some levels with this enhancement and some without.

[Kromm]

Magery is the Talent for using magical powers, including spells. All magical powers have a -10% limitation for being mana-sensitive, and spells implicitly have the same drawbacks. Ergo, it makes little sense to give Magery the Cosmic advantage. Instead, just take a Cosmic power -- with a +50% power modifier -- and use the usual 5 point/level Talent for that. If you also have a body of skills that benefit from that Talent, kick its cost up to 10 points/level, but don't call it Magery. And note that no matter what the Talent costs, the skills probably need some funky prerequisite to make them fair, since they're no longer mana-sensitive . . .

[mcv]

I'm still not sure what I think of Magery enhancements that modify the effect of mana level. The fact that Magery allows you to cast spells in normal mana, whereas without Magery you need high mana to cast spells, suggests that it might be part of Magery, but I'm not sure.

Like RedMattis says, Magery is basically I kind of talent. It boosts spells, it's not the spells themselves. Shouldn't you have some kind of enhancement on the spells themselves?

See, if you have Magery with the "ignores mana level" enhancement, your spells still don't have the "ignores mana level" enhancement. Someone without Magery would still benefit from extremely high mana levels. Why should the spells of a mage be limited by an enhancement on an advantage?

My feeling is that the only acceptable enhancements and limitations to Magery are those that influence the conditions where Magery provides its bonus. for example:

• only for prerequisites (doesn't provide skill bonus)
• only for skill bonus (doesn't count for prerequisites)
• only provides its bonus during the night (but during the day, you can still cast spells in high mana areas)

I can't even think of a proper enhancement. Perhaps an area effect would make everyone around you temporary mages?

[CattyNebulart]

Hmm, Krom has spoken so I'd rather just let it drop, but here are my 2c anyway;

The way I see it magery more than just a talent that is a prerequisite for a set of skills like Trained by a Master or Weapon Master.

Like those it has it's own benefits including at what level of mana you can cast spells (in high mana everyone is a mage), so enhancements on magery should be able to alter the rules for that part of the advantage. By default magery has accseibility limitations tied to the level of mana, so cosmic should let you change that and ignore those rules.

I wouldn't allow reduced FP on magery, because that is a property of the spell, but being able to cast the spell in regular mana is a property of magery, and therefore it should be possible to change it by adding a modifier to magery.

That said if you are just setting what amounts to a minimum on the manalevel you function in you should get mana enhancer with appropriate limitations so it doesn't work at higher mana levels, and maybe a limitation so it just affects spells you cast.

Come to think of it the 'I work at a fixed magery level' effet could be done by just using mana damper and mana enchancer with appropriate limitations and enhancements. It would be very expensive though, and most mages wouldn't want the mana damper effect, and I would prefer that sort of thing to scale with magical ability.

I suppose what the cosmic enhancement on magery would do is hange the power modifier to 'Like magic, but not really' or something of that nature. I don't think I would allow a modifier on the spells though as has been suggested, for a variety of reasons, not least of which is bookkeeping.

I like the idea of area effect on talents granting them to other people, though that would also require the modifier 'affects other people'. Now imagine doing it to disadvantages, like lecherous.... of course I'd say that you really should use affliction for that kind of thing, maybe with aura or emanation. Still I don't think there is anything in the RAW that forbids taking affects others and area effect on those kinds of things.

[Flyndaran]

This entire thread was possibly before the advantage Mana Enhancer. That increases mana levels over an area.
A limitation to never allow it going above normal is the only addiction I can think of to fit the general concept discussed here.

[simply Nathan]

My favorite is No Spell Prerequisites, +30%.