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Old 09-03-2011, 09:22 PM   #1
Proteus
 
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Default Order of Operations with Power Limitations?

I'm designing a super with Altered Time Rate 1 (Emergencies Only, -30%; Power Modifier, Super, -10%; Temporary Disadvantage, Night Blindness, -8 points; Unreliable 14, -10%).

The Temporary Disadvantage is worth -8 points rather than -10% (since Night Blindness is a -10 point disadvantage), since you can't save more than 80% of the value of a Temporary Disadvantage, and Altered Time Rate costs 100 points.

But, the question then arises: do you...
  • Assess the point discount and then the percentages, resulting in a price of (100 - 8) * .5 = 46 points, or...

  • Assess the percentages and then the point discount, resulting in a price of (100 * .5) - 8 = 42 points?

Obviously I'd prefer the second option... but I thought I'd better check.
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Old 09-03-2011, 09:34 PM   #2
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Default Re: Order of Operations with Power Limitations?

I think the point is that the total discount cannot exceed the value of the disadvantage on its own. So #2 is correct. Another way to write it would be ATR (-50%) [50] + Night Blindness (Only during ATR, -20%) [-8].
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Old 09-03-2011, 09:39 PM   #3
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Default Re: Order of Operations with Power Limitations?

The phrasing of that rule in terms of CP is a bit odd to me. I'd convert it to a percentage. (Since the base cost of ATR is 100 points, it's hard to tell the difference in this case.)

You'd expect to discount 30% + 10% + 10% + 10% = 60% of 100 points due to the limitations. That would be -10 points absolute for NB, which is limited to -8 points, so that's -8%, or a total of -58% limitations. Net cost is thus 42 points.

If the base cost of the advantage were 150 points, then you'd have a -8 / 150 = -5.333% limitation... ultimately times 150 equals -8 points again.

Arithmetically, it's the same as your second method of calculation. Whichever makes more sense to you.
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Old 09-04-2011, 07:02 AM   #4
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Default Re: Order of Operations with Power Limitations?

I would calculate the ability as normal without the limit on the Temp Disad, then add back to the final cost whatever amount is needed to comply with the cap.
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Old 09-04-2011, 01:40 PM   #5
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Default Re: Order of Operations with Power Limitations?

I recalculate the value of the Temporary Disadvantage to "Whatever percentage limitation gives you 80% the discount of the full Disadvantage" in these situations. Avoids questions of Order of Operations issues entirely.

So in this case, TD: Night Blindness is a -8% limitation (what with ATR being nicely 100 points, the math is really easy : 8/100 = 0.08 or 8%).

If you had some sort of 250 point advantage you were applying TD: Night Blindness to, it would then be a -3.2% limitation (8 points is 3.2% of 250 points).
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Old 09-04-2011, 08:25 PM   #6
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Default Re: Order of Operations with Power Limitations?

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
I recalculate the value of the Temporary Disadvantage to "Whatever percentage limitation gives you 80% the discount of the full Disadvantage" in these situations. Avoids questions of Order of Operations issues entirely.
+1. In fact, this is how I set GCA up a long time ago because it made the most sense to me.
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Old 09-04-2011, 09:12 PM   #7
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Default Re: Order of Operations with Power Limitations?

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Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
+1. In fact, this is how I set GCA up a long time ago because it made the most sense to me.
It is also how the enhancement and limitation system works in GURPS, they are not priced at utility of the current price but to the utility of the base advantage.
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