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Old 01-05-2006, 02:24 PM   #141
roguebfl
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Default Re: Whats a Munchkin?

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Originally Posted by Tom Kalbfus
But if you socially interact with enemy soldiers, that's called fraternizing with the enemy, and is strictly forbidden! Do you really expect US GIs to say "hello there," to the German troops in the pill boxes as they storm the beaches of Normandy? No need to get insulting. A World War II game is all about killing and surviving, its not a wargame as wargames eliminate the personal dimension and abstract it to the movement of troop units from the General eye's point of view. Role playing is at the squad level for World War II, unless you are going to role play a General who talks to his staff, gives orders, and listens to reports from the front.
Yes but then your ignoring the possibility of social interaction with the locals in a libarited country

or even rules on the possible of play the Reistance..
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Old 01-05-2006, 02:32 PM   #142
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Default Re: Whats a Munchkin?

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Originally Posted by Tom Kalbfus
A World War II game is all about killing and surviving, its not a wargame as wargames eliminate the personal dimension and abstract it to the movement of troop units from the General eye's point of view. Role playing is at the squad level for World War II, unless you are going to role play a General who talks to his staff, gives orders, and listens to reports from the front.
If you're not roleplaying between the members of the squad, their superiors, and the people around them, civilians and enemy combatants, etc., then all you're doing is wargaming.
Moving units strategically across the landscape, assaulting pillboxes, etc., has nothing whatsoever to do with roleplaying.

If you think of a movie like The Dirty Dozen, which is about a bunch of criminals doing the type of thing you'd expect from criminals in war, you'll see the amazing amount of opportunities for roleplaying in it, very, very much unlike a videogame or a wargame.
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Old 01-05-2006, 03:01 PM   #143
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Default Re: Whats a Munchkin?

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Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha
If you're not roleplaying between the members of the squad, their superiors, and the people around them, civilians and enemy combatants, etc., then all you're doing is wargaming.
Moving units strategically across the landscape, assaulting pillboxes, etc., has nothing whatsoever to do with roleplaying.

If you think of a movie like The Dirty Dozen, which is about a bunch of criminals doing the type of thing you'd expect from criminals in war, you'll see the amazing amount of opportunities for roleplaying in it, very, very much unlike a videogame or a wargame.
I didn't say they don't. If you will stop trying to be right all the time and listen to what I'm saying, I said it was combat intensive. Some people like lots of combat in their RPGs, and some people want to do Soap Operas. I want to learn the combat system, so naturally I lean toward those systems were their is lots of combat so I can learn something about it. I didn't say all RPGs were about that, but where their is alot of combat, you get lots of practise and become good at knowing the ins and outs of combat. Now if you don't want to reward your PCs for killing something thats your preference. In a Soap Opera RPG, killing and shooting should not be rewarded as the best way of dealing with problems. But in many ways the combat system is what distinguishes the GURPS system from D20.
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Old 01-05-2006, 03:08 PM   #144
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Default Re: Whats a Munchkin?

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Originally Posted by Tom Kalbfus
Now if you don't want to reward your PCs for killing something thats your preference. In a Soap Opera RPG, killing and shooting should not be rewarded as the best way of dealing with problems. But in many ways the combat system is what distinguishes the GURPS system from D20.
This is a thread about What is a Munchkin?, you're bringing up munchkin character point rewards for killing things, I'm pointing out that one of the primary reasons D20 is often Munchkin bait and breeding grounds is due directly to that reward system.
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Old 01-05-2006, 03:13 PM   #145
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Default Re: Whats a Munchkin?

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At which point the officer is put under arrest, gets court martialed, and depending on the situation probably ends up in Leavenworth too.
So I take it you've never seen Kelly's Heroes. Or are aware of all the looting done by American soldiers in Europe, which many of them got away with. Greedy looters in any war are not an inappropriate archetype and assuming the rules support it (Greed and no Honesty in GURPS, for instance) then it isn't bad roleplaying.

There really is no point. No one AFAICT is arguing that greedy characters are only played by munchkins, are they?
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Old 01-05-2006, 03:20 PM   #146
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Default Re: Whats a Munchkin?

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding
So I take it you've never seen Kelly's Heroes. Or are aware of all the looting done by American soldiers in Europe, which many of them got away with. Greedy looters in any war are not an inappropriate archetype and assuming the rules support it (Greed and no Honesty in GURPS, for instance) then it isn't bad roleplaying.
The point I was making was in reply to the suggestion of treating a WW2 game like a videogame or D&D type munchkin dungeon crawl where all you do is kill things and take their stuff.
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Old 01-05-2006, 03:21 PM   #147
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Default Re: Whats a Munchkin?

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But in many ways the combat system is what distinguishes the GURPS system from D20.
Actually I would say it is the point buy basis of GURPS which is the most significant difference between it and d20 the particulars of the combat system while significant pale before a difference in the basic way characters are constructed.
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Old 01-05-2006, 03:44 PM   #148
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Default Re: Whats a Munchkin?

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After some wrangling over the plausibility of such a thing (it isn't), the thread settled down on how best to colonize such a body with a 1960s Apollo-level of technology.

<snip>

Have a cup of tea instead.
Ah yes, *that* thread. I rather liked the alt.1960s bits.

And I just cleaned out a carafe. ^.^ Mmm Orange Pekoe for starters for me, it's a damp chilly night in Dreary Ohio and a long thread. Right! Time to put the kettle on.
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Old 01-05-2006, 04:55 PM   #149
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Default Re: Whats a Munchkin?

To each his own I say, I think social interaction is perfectly legitimate. For my purposes, I like to practice on the GURPS combat system, I don't think I'm a Munchkin because I want to do something where I get to practice the procedures of GURPS combat, that was what I wanted to communicate, I'm not saying that's all people should do. There are many options for combat, and as a gamer I like many instances of it so that I learn them all, so I can get as comfortable with it as I am with D20. Social interaction and combat lite RPG settings won't teach me what I need to know about the combat system. It was not my intention to denegrate the other aspects of RPGing, if that was the message received than I miscommunicated.
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Old 01-05-2006, 05:26 PM   #150
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I have run campaigns where the players could have caused out of game circumstances like that, often through the expenditure of Hero/Drama/Fate Points. It's metagam action but as long as their characters act within the game it doesn't bother me. In games where this is not appropriate I wouldn't have penalized a player for the first offense but that is a personal style thing
I've never had to penalize him again, which was the result I wanted.
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