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03-25-2019, 08:47 AM | #1 |
Join Date: May 2018
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[LT] Padded/Layered Cloth weight
Browsing some gambesons available for sale I noticed they're very light, none weighting more than 10 lbs, and after googling some more I found no evidence that gambesons and padded jacks are as heavy as shown on Low-Tech (lightest version with only 1 dr weights 9 lbs, dr 2 jumps to 18 lbs).
Why are textile armor in GURPS so heavy? Is it to balance their low cost? |
03-25-2019, 09:34 AM | #2 | |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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Re: [LT] Padded/Layered Cloth weight
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Its like how a leather jacket from a department store is DR 0 and 1-3 lbs, not any of the kinds of leather armour in a game book. Edit: The best definitions of damage and DR in GURPS are for steel plates vs. bullets, and have trouble representing things which provide a bit of protection against muscle-powered attacks, so GURPS Low Tech has optional rules ... but its not unreasonable for most of the padded jackets for sale today to give DR 0 to DR 1* (cutting and crushing only)/0. They are lightly built from cheap materials to look good and take the sting out of blunt swords.
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"It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper This forum got less aggravating when I started using the ignore feature Last edited by Polydamas; 03-25-2019 at 10:01 AM. |
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03-25-2019, 11:45 AM | #3 |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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Re: [LT] Padded/Layered Cloth weight
Also ... I think there was tension between having rules for padded armour 6 mm, 12 mm, 18 mm, and 25 mm thick, and between making its DR-to-weight ratio appropriate in comparison to metal armour. As is, I would treat Padded Cloth and Light Layered Cloth as the main options, because 30 layers of linen protecting just the Torso weigh about 3600 g (8 lbs) and an extant mid-thigh-length, long-sleeved, inch-thick padded armour would weigh 10-12 lbs if it were adult sized.
Dan Howard has said that it would help for representing muscle-powered combat if a point of DR represented about half as much resistance as it does now. As it is, there are optional rules in Low Tech to describe how someone in a heavy winter jacket, flannel shirt and longjohns can get away with things in a knife fight that someone in Bermuda shorts and a Hawaian shirt can't risk.
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"It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper This forum got less aggravating when I started using the ignore feature |
03-25-2019, 12:47 PM | #4 |
Join Date: May 2018
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Re: [LT] Padded/Layered Cloth weight
So those gambesons being sold as "padded jacket class" are all just the inner padding gurps includes in the armor weights or at best padded cloth (dr 1*)? That's a bummer...
Thanks for dispeling my misunderstanding. |
03-25-2019, 04:14 PM | #5 | |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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Re: [LT] Padded/Layered Cloth weight
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Here is an example of proper textile armour. It is about an inch thick and is as rigid as a board. http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O8...rmour-unknown/ Loadouts: Low-Tech Armor would be a good book to read. It dispels a lot of historical armour myths. http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/l.../lowtecharmor/ Keep in mind that clothing can be very heavy. A lot of older-styled wedding dresses can weigh 30 lbs or more.
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Compact Castles gives the gamer an instant portfolio of genuine, real-world castle floorplans to use in any historical, low-tech, or fantasy game setting. Last edited by DanHoward; 03-25-2019 at 04:56 PM. |
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03-26-2019, 02:29 AM | #7 |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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Re: [LT] Padded/Layered Cloth weight
The very best might count as DR 0 or 1 (cut)/0 Ordinary Clothing or DR 1* Padded Cloth. Most would count as Cheap and have several quirks and flaws which historical clothing did not: the ones for combat sports tend to be too bulky for plate armour to fit properly above them, its common for them to have a gap at the armpit or be too tight about the hips and thighs so they gap between the legs when the wearer walks ...
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"It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper This forum got less aggravating when I started using the ignore feature |
03-26-2019, 08:24 AM | #8 |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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Re: [LT] Padded/Layered Cloth weight
Arming garments are not much use unless they are custom-tailored to properly fit the wearer. You can't get one "off the shelf". The whole point of underpadding was to stop chafing, to improve the fit of the armour, and to provide a foundation to which the armour can be attached. They were never intended to provide additional protection.
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Compact Castles gives the gamer an instant portfolio of genuine, real-world castle floorplans to use in any historical, low-tech, or fantasy game setting. Last edited by DanHoward; 03-26-2019 at 08:32 AM. |
03-25-2019, 11:26 AM | #9 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: [LT] Padded/Layered Cloth weight
It's because of the amount of textile needed for DR 1 against impaling. There's rules in LT for heavy clothing that is DR 1 vs cutting only, and that weighs less.
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