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Old 04-16-2021, 07:26 AM   #41
jason taylor
 
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Default Re: Create Food and it's effect on infrastructure

Actually some complications can be made from folklore. There can be sacred high-mana zones, Fisher Kings that cannot leave a certain territory, cannot dispense with his regalia, whatever. Invocations of a Corn King at planting and harvest.
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Old 04-16-2021, 12:55 PM   #42
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Default Re: Create Food and it's effect on infrastructure

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Actually some complications can be made from folklore. There can be sacred high-mana zones, Fisher Kings that cannot leave a certain territory, cannot dispense with his regalia, whatever. Invocations of a Corn King at planting and harvest.
The thread reminds me of the warnings in some works against accepting food and drink from the fairy-folk. Getting a mouthful of beetles and leaves might be the least of your troubles.
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Old 04-16-2021, 04:25 PM   #43
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The thread reminds me of the warnings in some works against accepting food and drink from the fairy-folk. Getting a mouthful of beetles and leaves might be the least of your troubles.
That's another thing that could be related.
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Old 04-16-2021, 04:36 PM   #44
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So this goes into GURPS Realm Management territory...
It's kind of fitting that book came out while I was thinking about this XD

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If you're on a tropical island and you can make food out of nothing, and there are no other tribes bothering you, why should you try and work stones, in order to create weapons, since you don't need hunting weapons or agricultural implements to start with? Why should you make a canoe flotilla? That sloooows down progress. To the point of stopping it.
Hmm, that was one thing I was thinking about. There is the whole 'necessity breeds invention', so I might have to figure out what pressures to put into place to cause certain forms of progress.



As for the whole slave labor thing, I'm not even quite sure how to put my thoughts into what I think of that.
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Old 04-17-2021, 04:39 AM   #45
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Anthropologically a culture, not a civilization - apparently building cities is the defining factor for a civilization (or it used to be, I may be out of date).
That, yes, I just meant they seemed to have a fairly well-equipped castle going on which implied either rather more going on than Tolkien suggests or else a lot of magical cheating.

I love the comments about the possible ways in which making food by magic might not be straightforward.
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Old 04-17-2021, 07:15 AM   #46
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That, yes, I just meant they seemed to have a fairly well-equipped castle going on which implied either rather more going on than Tolkien suggests or else a lot of magical cheating.

I love the comments about the possible ways in which making food by magic might not be straightforward.
Tolkien concentrates on the things he is interested in. He does not for instance tell how the fireworks were transported from the Lonely Mountain as the trip was unusually hazardous.
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Old 04-18-2021, 04:02 AM   #47
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Oh, goodness, yes, I'd forgotten about the fireworks being from the Mountain. I think the wilds were supposed to be somewhat less wild after the goblins and wolves had been almost wiped out in the Battle of Five Armies and the Kingdom under the Mountain was going again (until Sauron went seriously into action), but still, that's a heck of a journey.
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Old 04-18-2021, 07:53 AM   #48
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Default Re: Create Food and it's effect on infrastructure

Not to mention Thranduil being at least somewhat less hostile while also being more able to patrol, and the Necromancer having been evicted and thus concentrating his efforts in his new abode rather than mirking up the Greenwood.

Plus, it may be somewhat less enticing for spiders to attack a wagon full of explosive fire projectors and rockets than some dwarves (and a hobbit) with hand weapons and thrown rocks. (Assuming they weren't actually escorted by a demigod with the Ring of Fire.)
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Old 04-18-2021, 10:45 AM   #49
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Default Re: Create Food and it's effect on infrastructure

The trip may have been, as you say, unusually hazardous, but I'm pretty sure everything between the Lonely Mountain and the Shire has come to understand that attacking an old man in a grey robe and pointy hat is also unusually hazardous. They may not know the name "Gandalf" (or "Mithrandir"), or for that matter even have a language, but everything knows that that shape is dangerous.
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Old 04-18-2021, 11:47 AM   #50
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Default Re: Create Food and it's effect on infrastructure

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Hmm, that was one thing I was thinking about. There is the whole 'necessity breeds invention', so I might have to figure out what pressures to put into place to cause certain forms of progress.
This is part of why I suggested having the humans originally be from a more mundane world. The pressures of this one (and solution to those pressures) are markedly different from those of our own, so society evolving to look anything like the historical Medieval and Renaissance periods is incredibly unlikely.

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As for the whole slave labor thing, I'm not even quite sure how to put my thoughts into what I think of that.
While heroic characters who own slaves - even largely-benevolent societies where slavery is a thing - are certainly possible to create, this is difficult to get right - and even more so if the slaves are acquired via bloody warfare, rather than being punishment for crimes, a method of paying off debt (or provide for one's family), etc.

...

Of course even if magic is able to supply the necessary food, water, and raw materials to keep a city going, there are at least three very important resources one could fight over - location, location, and location. Areas that are more defensible against monster attacks, or where there is a monster shortage, would be in high demand, and if you've outgrown your own bastion of safety, you may need to take over someone else's.

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Plus, it may be somewhat less enticing for spiders to attack a wagon full of explosive fire projectors and rockets than some dwarves (and a hobbit) with hand weapons and thrown rocks. (Assuming they weren't actually escorted by a demigod with the Ring of Fire.)
Weren't the spiders only a problem when the dwarves (+hobbit) left the path to try to beg food from the elves? I thought the paths of Mirkwood were safe (due to enchantment, patrols, etc), but you were in trouble if you strayed. It's been a loooong time since I read The Hobbit (or LotR for that matter), however.
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