06-26-2022, 05:45 PM | #31 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Deindustrialized World3 22nd Century
Capital letters do not turn a falsehood true. While some portion of radioactive wastes can be productively recycled, you're inevitably going to have a fair amount of fission byproducts and neutron-activated materials that are hazardous but not useful. The quantity is not super large, but claiming that there's none is straight up false.
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06-26-2022, 06:06 PM | #32 | ||
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
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Re: Deindustrialized World3 22nd Century
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Yes, there is WASTE, but there is no IMPACT - ie Nuclear cause NO pollution. Unlike... Any other power source. Coal, oil, gas, even hidro and solar, they all cause an impact (the larger being coal, the lesser being solar). Nuclear causes none, due to the modern techniques of containment. The wastes are sealed away and buried without causing any harm; some is even recicled, what it isnt will safely decay away over time until it becomes harmless once more, in a totally secure environment. The first Nuclear Power Plants were... Unsafe. That's not the case anymore. The technology on it have come a long way, and they now are 100% secure. |
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06-26-2022, 06:14 PM | #33 | |
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: West Virginia
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Re: Deindustrialized World3 22nd Century
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Hydroelectric needn't be only dams. Any source of flowing water will do. And wind is growing more viable. So neither computers not the internet is out.
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Per Ardua Per Astra! Ancora Imparo |
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06-26-2022, 06:16 PM | #34 |
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: West Virginia
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Re: Deindustrialized World3 22nd Century
Good point! And Thorium would be explored as well, and it is far more abundant than uranium.
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Per Ardua Per Astra! Ancora Imparo |
06-26-2022, 06:17 PM | #35 | |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Deindustrialized World3 22nd Century
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06-26-2022, 06:24 PM | #36 | |
Join Date: Dec 2020
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Re: Deindustrialized World3 22nd Century
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I just answer to this 2 in correct facts and spare the rest. First 5% for Solar and Wind Ernergy together in germany, is outdated by decades. Even wikipedia english version says 2020 27% wind + 10,5% solar in the public grid, it has been more since, even if germany misses the self set targets by a big margin. The old 2017 data wiki german version says 13,3% Wind and 6,1% Solar. You see my point? Whichever source you took it must be totally outdated maybe pre 2000. Yes france uses nuclear power, a lot of it, but guess why german lignite-fired power plants have run the last years full power? The french are buying german electricity. Every Watt they can get! Why? Because the nuclear power plants are old and need to be replaced, but france couldnīd afford the several billion high price tag. Therefore they asked the EU to label nuclear power as renewable becvause this way they could get access to the funds. Every time a few are off line due to necessary maintanance, not to mention the water level in some waterways who cool the plants are getting low due to changed weather patterns. Meanwhile our local energy producer RWE with one of the biggest lignite fired power plant in germany is getting a golden nose because of this. I live just several miles near the plant. The german dirty energy export is a common theme here. You can take a look at the energy import export of EU nations via Wikipedia or the national gouvernments, same goes for the energy mix as for all other points. Writing in capitals or telling wrong facts doesnīt help this threat to get a outview on a earth in the middle of a crisis. Please stay with the facts, even if you donīt like them. Sorry that I have to be so blunt. |
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06-26-2022, 06:45 PM | #37 | |
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
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Re: Deindustrialized World3 22nd Century
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And that's still Germany, which is country that has most heavily invested in those. And while Germany is indeed a large economy, the 4th largest in the world, it's still a small percentage of global GDP and smaller even in populational terms. So it doesnt change the fact that it is not viable as a global solution. Yes, nuclear is expensive, but it's the only viable alternative. The cheapest solution is coal, which is what the chinese are using to turn their country into pure poison. So that's the choice, clean and expensive but reliable, clean expensive and unreliable (solar and wind) or dirt and cheap. So make your choice. |
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06-26-2022, 07:00 PM | #38 | |
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: UK
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Re: Deindustrialized World3 22nd Century
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(1) How long in advance do people know it's happening/how long have they been preparing? Reserves of coal, oil and gas seem to be monitored pretty closely, by their owners if nobody else. They often pronounce on how much is left in a particular well or field. Unless something very odd happens (say, an ancient earth god turns up and takes it all away), it sounds as if the world would know years or decades in advance if fossil fuels were going to run out. And if national governments acted as intelligently as an individual human, they'd be frantically working to get alternatives set up - alternative fuel sources, rearranging their supply chains and infrastructure to depend less on armies of cars and trucks, et cetera. How much they have prepared in advance is another matter. Politics might mean that some or all countries didn't do much, even if the scientists warned them years in advance. It might even be less than nothing - no preparations made, but everyone spends the time before the real crisis sets in fighting furiously over the little bit that's left. In fact, that doesn't seem to be all that far off what's happening now. (2) How quickly can they get things back again? For instance, lots of things - solar panels, hydroelectric plants, computers, etc. - will last a long time, even if new ones aren't being made. They can get by for some time without a serious TL decrease, even if nobody has the resources available to make new ones. But at some point those things will start to break down, and if they can't get manufacture of new equipment/new parts under way before too much of it does, they're in trouble. That's possibly not so much a variable as a predictable result - how long it would, in practice, take before they could spare the time and resources to do that. Also, they theoretically could have lots of things, but not all of them at once. It depends what they spent their precious supplies of renewable electricity, vegetable oil and ethanol on. They might, for instance, have some Internet but no cars or some cars but no Internet or some mixture of the two. Especially if, as malloyd says, there are in fact some fossil fuels left, just rare.
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Looking for online text-based game at a UK-feasible time, anything considered, Roll20 preferred. http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=168443 Last edited by Inky; 06-26-2022 at 07:08 PM. |
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06-26-2022, 07:17 PM | #39 | |
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
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Re: Deindustrialized World3 22nd Century
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Anyway, be that as it may, Germany has only about 80 million people. No small country by any amount, but that still is only about 1/90 of total humanity. And Germany on top of that is a very wealthy country capable of paying the high costs of installing all the several thousands of wind turbines - something that even other european countries cant keep up. I'll take your data at face value since I cant find precise, concise numbers. But it doesnt change my point, even if it's a some above the 5% mark. Germany has a relatively small population compared to larger countries - behind China, India, US, Indonesia, Pakistan, Brazil and several others - and is the country that has invested the most in it - and it's still no where near close to satisfactory. So, if it has not been effective for the number 1 with a medium sized country and medium sized population, dont expect it to be effective for the entire world. The other thing I also noticed is the huge oscilation of generation between each year. Solar of course, at night it's zero, so I dont even know why to consider it. But Wind, year to year there are cases of reduction of up to 15% in generation, even with a constant yearly expansion of the grid |
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06-26-2022, 07:23 PM | #40 |
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
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Re: Deindustrialized World3 22nd Century
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