Are there stats for a crocodile tooth sword?

[Rasna]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

Definitely going with Crushing. Seems strange but that's what the teeth being used are rated as. The getting stuck thing would just be adding a touch of Horror to the gumbo: big old, dirty tooth stuck in a victim's body - but the "bites" are only on one side... That Crippling wound you took won't heal until you get that tooth out of the bone...
But, Impaling for a single tooth: would it work as a shiv? Maybe a poor qualiy small knife, Th-2 Imp, no cut option. Perhaps Th-1 (0.5) Imp.

If properly worked, Horn/Tooth can be used to make good impaling points. Arrows with horn and bone tips were in use in the Near East during the Bronze Age and the Iron Age as a cheap replacement for iron and bronze tips. Some of them, dating 701 BC (Siege of Lachish), have been recovered from the site of Lachish. They can be even Fine Quality, but they still retain the (0.5) armour divisor - good against game and unarmoured targets, but not against well-armoured foes. The same could be for a Knife (maybe using the stats of a Dagger or a Rondel Dagger without the pommel).

[Rasna]

Just giving some game stats. These aren't improvised weapons, but good quality ones. Weight in kg is approximed to lbs x 0.4 for the sake of simplicity.


Crocodile Tooth Small Knife

Type: Dagger - Horn/Tooth
Skill: Knife
TL: 0
Damage:
1) thr-1 (0.5) imp / Reach C / Parry -1 / ST 5
2) [Reversed Grip] thr (0.5) imp / Reach C / Parry -3 / ST 5
Lenght: Very Short.
DR/HP/HT: 2/5/12
Cost: $4
Weight: 0.25 lbs. / 0.1 kg
Notes: Throwable.


Crocodile Tooth Large Knife

Type: Rondel Dagger - Horn/Tooth
Skill: Knife
TL: 0
Damage:
1) thr (0.5) imp / Reach C / Parry -1 / ST 6
2) [Reversed Grip] thr+1 (0.5) imp / Reach C / Parry -3 / ST 6
Lenght: Short.
DR/HP/HT: 2/8/12
Cost: $8
Weight: 1 lb. / 0.4 kg
Notes: Reduce penalty for targeting chinks in armor (p. B400) by -2.


Crocodile Tooth Pick

Type: Pick - Horn/Tooth
Skill: Axe/Mace
TL: 0
Damage:
1) sw+1 (0.5) imp / Reach 1 / Parry 0U / ST 10. May get stuck; see Picks (p. B405).
2) [Hook] (no damage) / Reach 1 / Parry 0U / ST 10
Lenght: Medium.
DR/HP/HT: 2/11/12
Cost: $14
Weight: 3 lbs. / 1.2 kg
Notes: Reduce penalty for targeting chinks in armor (p. B400) by -2.

[jacobmuller]

Dang but that's making my crazy look good.
I can just about imagine the scrimshaw on the blades - filled with the dried blood of enemy warriors. D&D lizard folk should have been armed with these - made from the teeth of great warriors - fighting even after death.

Real world: I wonder why they don't sell them in Floruda/Woomura - big stencils on "blade" Sunny Flo or My mates went to Woom and all I got was this Tooth... I mean, they sell preserved whole alligators, heads, & skulls. Tourist trash tooth daggers...

[Rasna]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

Dang but that's making my crazy look good.

It's not that crazy, considering that humans have been utilized horn tools and weapons for millennia. Obviously, you have to work the raw teeth in order to get a proper weapon, but I think that crocodile teeth make a very good material because of their sturdiness. All you have to do is work the tooth apex into a very pointy one and then attach the base of the tooth to a haft, a staff or an arrow shaft.

The only drawback is that a horn point isn't durable as one made of iron, steel or bronze, and it's also much softer (explaining the 0.5 armour divisor). Not only it would be far less effective in penetrating armour, but the pointy apex of the tip would likely break sooner, leaving a less effective weapon in the hands of his/her owner (-1 to impaling damage or worse). Crocodile teeth would be a good weapon material in TL 0 societies or in TL 1-3 societies with scarce iron/bronze availability. They would be second choice or third choice materials for weapons in TL 1-3 societies with sufficient iron/bronze availability; in that context they would likely be used to make tools, hunting weapons, cheap edgeless knives and arrows and javelins meant to be specifically used against unarmoured foes.

[The Colonel]

How about a set of crocodile skin cesti with the teeth as spikes (or for the armed combatant, the same thing as the backs of a set of gauntlets) so that you essentially punch with a fistful of crocodile teeth?

[jacobmuller]

I'm not certain but I have the feeling that all those spikey fist options are just +1 damage with extra dramatic flavour. Maybe Really Big Teeth would get you +2 (0.5) Imp but then again maybe an RBT vambrace just gets you Th+1 (0.5) Imp (Conan the Barbarian, pit fight?)

[DanHoward]

See Spiky Bits, LTC2, p.18.

[Rasna]

Speaking about crocodiles, crocodile armour was a thing too.

III century AD Roman crocodile armour (likely for parade use only):
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/72/16...c3533bfc11.jpg

Osprey reconstruction:
https://www.studio88.co.uk/acatalog/...ile_armour.jpg

XIX century crocodile armour from Camerun:
https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/phot...O9_700bwp.webp

If I have to stat them, they would be Heavy Leather for the thickest parts and Medium Leather for the thinnest parts. Maybe the Heavy Leather parts could qualify for Leather of Quality (+1 DR, +4 CF).

Let's stat a simple suite or armour for some "crocodile-river" tribal war leader:


Crocodile Helmet (including a "tail" covering the nape and the back of the neck)

Type: Leather, Heavy - Leather of Quality
TL: 0
Locations: Skull, nape (back of the face without the ears), neck (back) [27%]
DR: 4 (3 vs. impaling)
HP/HT: 14/12
Cost: $270
Weight: 5.4 lbs. / 2.16 kg
Don: 9
Holdout: -5
Notes: -1 DR vs. impaling.


Crocodile Corselet

Type: Leather, Heavy - Leather of Quality
TL: 0
Locations: Chest [75%]
DR: 4 (3 vs. impaling)
HP/HT: 19/12
Cost: $750
Weight: 15 lbs. / 6 kg
Don: 23
Holdout: -4
Notes: -1 DR vs. impaling.


For a total of $1,020; 20.4 lbs. / 8.16 kg; and Don 32.

DR 4 (3 vs. impaling) means that it would be effectively DR 8 against cutting weapons made of stone, obsidian or shark teeth and DR 6 against impaling weapons made of stone, obsidian, horn, bone or wood because of their (0.5) armor divisor, making crocodile armour an excellent defence against TL 0 weaponry. It would be also a decent armor against TL 1-3 weaponry, but nothing of special.

[DanHoward]

The Osprey reconstruction is ridiculous. It isn't armour; it covers the back only - the front is completely open. Add to that the fact that it was found in a temple to Sobek (crocodile God) and it is pretty safe to say that is a religious garment.

[Rasna]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

The Osprey reconstruction is ridiculous. It isn't armour; it covers the back only - the front is completely open. Add to that the fact that it was found in a temple to the Crocodile God and it is pretty safe to say that is was a religious garment.

Haven't said that this specific example was armour donned in battle - citing myself, "likely for parade use only". In Osprey books is quite the norm to see erroneous reconstruction af armour and equipment, especially in older ones - a lot of drawings of Angus McBride would be considered wrong reconstructions today, but he only did what the authors told him to do. In this specific case, I think that the author of the volume knew that the Roman crocodile armour was ceremonial but he tried to present a hypothetical practical version of it.

For some reason, Ancient Egyptians didn't seem to have used crocodile leather or hippo leather armour, at least not in relevant numbers. Maybe they used a very little of both, but it doesn't show on written or archaeological record, and the fact that leather is degradable doesn't help us. Tut's scale leather armour was made from goat leather with a six-layered linen backing, but as good it is, it's only a single example from Late Bronze Age. Some Central African cultures however did use crocodile leather armour.

To me, the parts with the thicker scales, like the central section of the back of the crocodile, should be Heavy Leather with Leather of Quality. Other thick parts should be simply Heavy Leather and the thinner parts should be Medium Leather.