03-01-2021, 12:22 PM | #71 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: Hit Points...to be, or not to be?
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Even 1 HP of healing will stop bleeding.I probably took that to be a generic rule for all healing (ie magic healing, daily HT roll healing, Regeneraton) but maybe that's jumping the gun and shorting that expensive advantage of perhaps something which ought to be unique to it? B420's rules for this, the "bleeding stops for good" situation requirement is "do not bleed for three consecutive minutes" where you get bleeding-stops-one-minute situations by a passed HT roll. B424's First Aid is mentioned as being a way around it... which is I think the "one minute to apply pressure" situation. Possibly the "or a tournaquet" just means the tournaquet is on for one minute but the aider doesn't need to apply pressure after tying it off? Not sure I get the "A later roll will prevent further HP loss" part. Like the usual "restores 1 HP" is ignored and instead it's "if you got aid in 1st min, don't lose the 1 HP if you failed the HT roll" ? Seems like the skill of a FA user (IQ: B195) could sub for bad HT for stopping blood loss. Would be cool for situations where that might be influenced by DX (how well do you tie a tournaquet?) or ST ("the 100ft giant's wound gushes with the pressure of a firehose, can you even hold the bandage on?") could matter. Could also be neat, since HT naturally helps with slowing blood loss, if instead of these being separate rolls if they somehow synergized into a single roll. Like maybe First Aid isn't super-perfect and instead you make a trio of IQ/DX/ST rolls simply to add a +1 bonus to the usual HT roll? The two basic healing spells (Lend Vitality and Minor Healing) on B248 don't seem to mention stopping bleeding like First Aid skill and Healing advantage do... so maybe that's the exclusive purview of M91's "Stop Bleeding" spell? Other means of restoring HP like DR with Absorbtion, getting Affliction (Advantage:1 HP +20%), using Leech... unlike Healing there isn't explicit mention of stopping blood loss so that'd be pretty cool if they actually didn't, emphasizing the use of the Healing advantage, Stop Bleeding spell, or First Aid skill. In terms of how this affects Regeneration: since that comes with Rapid Healing built into it, if that +5 to HT rolls also helps with stopping blood loss it's probably sort of a moot issue for them. To make blood loss more gruesome I was thinking you could have separate blood loss (1 hp per minute) not just for each 1hp wound, but for each 1hp in general. This way we don't get the oddity where a 1 HP creature who suffered a 100% hp wound (down to 0hp) bleeds out an additional 100% hp per minute, while some 100hp creature who suffered a 100% hp wound of 100hp (down to 0hp) only suffers an additional 1% hp per minute. Then for stabilizing you could have separate IQchecks on First Aid for each HP worth of bleeding you want to stop. That way it's less all-or-nothing and you might partially slow blood loss even though you can't completely stop it, which I've seen in medical dramas. That'd only work with computer die rollers (total how many of the 100 HT checks passed) so sans-computer, it'd probably be simpler to say the HP you lose per interval is not 1hp but rather the HP of the specific wound. In terms of first aid checks, there's a difference between a single 50hp wound on the torso of a 100hp giant vs fifty one-HP wounds on said giant. The former needs one massive sucking-wound bandage bigger-than-a-transport-truck while the latter might substitute fifty tiny human-size band-aids. This definitely links into the conditional injuries concept from Pyramid 120 but I can't remember if it dealt with higher-HP wounds (rather than higher %) having ST/SM considerations. |
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03-01-2021, 12:36 PM | #72 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Hit Points...to be, or not to be?
Depends what you mean by 'equivalent'. Sandpapering someone with nicks and cuts will eventually kill someone, it just takes a lot of hits.
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03-01-2021, 12:43 PM | #73 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: Hit Points...to be, or not to be?
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Having a hundred 1mm gashes on your body is probably worse than having one 10mm (1cm) gash, but probably not as bad as having a 100mm (10cm/1dm) gash? |
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03-01-2021, 12:52 PM | #74 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Hit Points...to be, or not to be?
This predates rules that have First Aid penalized (or rendered inadequate, such as for Vitals wounds) by wound location and severity. It's up to the GM if the Healing Advantage will suffer penalties for healing more severe wounds, but if it does I'd certainly allow the "1 HP of healing will stop bleeding" to go into effect (if it doesn't, the GM may put it in an odd slot, where Healing will restore HP but leave the character to continue bleeding... or just say "It's an expensive Advantage, so it just works better").
Bandaging someone who has lost 5 HP from bleeding out over the last several minutes won't restore those lost HP, but stops the character from losing more, which I think is all that part is getting at. I'd need to check the books to see if there's any indication there are cases where you don't get the 1 HP restored from bandaging; I'm pretty certain that still applies regardless anytime simple bandaging is an option. And if you got aid in the first minute, you never need to make the HT roll to avoid losing HP to bleeding - by the time that check rolled around, the bleeding had already been stopped.
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03-01-2021, 01:52 PM | #75 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: Hit Points...to be, or not to be?
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Sort of like how the LT rules for limiting HP loss to impaling torso attacks varies on whether or not you use them. Potential HP loss is double if there's no bleeding rules, because you can rely on bleeding to make up the difference. B424's "one minute .. to stop" vs "successful First Aid roll within one minute of his injury" though ... when do you actually make the roll, when you begin compression or after 60s of it? I could see maybe 60s as the base time (ie if you immediately apply bandage when injury is inflicted, you've done 60s of compression and make your roll to prevent the HT check just as it comes due?) but maybe you could alter that via "Time Spent" rules? Like you could make your skill check in 90% of the time (54 seconds) at -1 to first aid skill, if you were only able to apply a compress to the wound 5 seconds after it began to bleed? All the way down to maybe -9 to first aid if you got there with only 6 seconds to spare? Being able to negate 54 seconds worth of bleeding with a last-second arrival seems kinda odd though. Martial Arts acknowledges this by switching to 30-second intervals but you still get a "ignore 25 seconds of spurting" impression there. Part of the increased wound multiplier for veins/arteries Hit Locations is meant to reflect instantaeous blood loss I think, but doesn't really bridge the middle-ground of what 5/10/15/20/25 second gap differences before applying compression can mean. Probably the issue is hesitance to deal with 0.1 hp intervals of blood loss which could allow more regular seepage. Would be more realistic and add more sense of urgency to second-by-second combat/medic treatment though. |
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03-01-2021, 02:01 PM | #76 | |
Hero of Democracy
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
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Re: Hit Points...to be, or not to be?
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Wow, this looks similar to lwcamp's "Semi-cumulative wounding system" that I usually fall back to when I'm worried about these things. I suspect he based it on the compendium rules? (as a quick summary, he makes six wounds in one category count as one wound in a higher category).
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03-01-2021, 02:11 PM | #77 | |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Hit Points...to be, or not to be?
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03-01-2021, 03:00 PM | #78 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: Hit Points...to be, or not to be?
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03-02-2021, 02:35 AM | #79 |
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Rome, Italy
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Re: Hit Points...to be, or not to be?
I'm quite puzzled by all the rule-based answers to what is, in his core, a question on the philosophy of role playing systems.
"Hit points" are a concept that multiple rulesets have already discarded: think games like "Tales from the Loop" (where the characters cannot even die) or "Duralande"... And both are adventure-heavy settings with characters that are meant to be facing mortal threat and enemies. Heck, even the old World of Darkness had like 5 (or 6?) wound levels for every character type (no idea about the new one but i would be surprised they changed this). And after the rule system, there is the GM: I find quite interesting the "referee VS storyteller" thing because I have a yet different take: IMHO roleplay is collective storytelling, the goal is to have fun times together not to inflict and endure the caprices of fate and written rules (for that I have already my normal life thanks). Why a GM chose to include a scenario where certain death (of a PC or a NPC) is necessary? Maybe is a plot device (damn you Salazar, I will have my revenge!) maybe is a teaching moment (never wake up a sleeping dragon!) maybe is the climax of a story (where all bets and brakes are off). I personally don't like the genocide level of killing there is classic fantasy roleplay games: I like instead to build my scenarios around moral and ethical challenges, and then let the players chose their own path around (or through) it. In my games the fights are quite scarce (no more than one or two for session) and they are almost always because of PC choices: so I design them to be challenging, dangerous and interesting in an effort to make them memorable. In my games Hit Points are no more than a resource used to make interesting choices: can we chose to fight? How long we can push this? Are we at risk of losing someone? If so, what that PC thinks and can he/she suggest another course of action? For this reason I try to limit supernatural healing (it's a scarce last resort thing for exceptional cases only) and when I run the baddies I am going for inflicting lasting injuries more than "generic HP loss" because of the memorability above. Players are usually fine in having equipment loss, characters limitations for the next sessions or a new disadvantage if the story was worth it. And if they are not, then the quest to regain the missing "thing" is an excellent plot hook for the future sessions. THIS is another reason why I cannot stand "level", "tier" (or even "points"... And their use in GURPS is for sure another good discussion thread) based game system. Once you put this frame you are shielding your PC from the mundane world... And I frankly don't understand why you should do this.
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03-02-2021, 03:45 AM | #80 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: Hit Points...to be, or not to be?
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